Killing animals for sport

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LKL
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01 Sep 2008, 7:45 pm

The fox is often torn to pieces by the hounds, which doesn't leave a lot of fur for anyone.

aspiartist
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01 Sep 2008, 7:55 pm

Any sadistic pigs on board!

ascan
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02 Sep 2008, 1:57 am

Xercies wrote:

... And these higher classes are just doing it for fun which is just sick. They sometimes don't even cook it and just use it for furs for there spoilt wife.

You really shouldn't have listened to all those leftist teachers at school, Xercies. In many rural areas folk from a whole range of social backgrounds are involved with the hunt. Yes, in some more affluent places it's popular with the upper classes, but around here it's tenant farmers, shopkeepers and builders. You really have no business denouncing that of which you obviously have no real knowledge.

ascan
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02 Sep 2008, 2:00 am

LKL wrote:

The fox is often torn to pieces by the hounds, which doesn't leave a lot of fur for anyone.

So what? They're killed as vermin just like you'd kill rats. I don't see anyone here lamenting the passing of the millions of rats that suffer a lingering death from poisoning each year. Why do you think that is?

Xercies
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02 Sep 2008, 4:31 am

Okay sometimes the farmers go into the hunt as well...but I still think its a horrible thing to do...

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n4mwd
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02 Sep 2008, 5:07 am

PunkyKat wrote:

Hunting for "sport" is wrong. Hunting and fishing are not real sports. Soccer, football, baseball, etc. are sports. Hunting and fishing are just glorfied forms of animal abuse. It's another way for people to feel good about themselves by hurting or killing someone weaker than them.

Perhaps, but man is not the only creature that kills for sport. Dogs and raccoons are known to kill for sport also. Ever see a cat play with a mouse? We need to kill all the dogs, cats and raccoons because they are evil and kill for sport.

ascan
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02 Sep 2008, 7:49 am

Xercies wrote:

Okay sometimes the farmers go into the hunt as well...but I still think its a horrible thing to do...

Why?

I'd venture to suggest the answer to that is because the squeaky-clean cellophane-wrapped urban world you live in shelters you from the reality of how food is actualy put on your table. Society has weakened you to the point where you are totally dependent on others to do what is and has been essential to human survival for millions of years. Ironically, you look down with contempt on those very people who allow you to exist in that bubble of perceived moral superiority.

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02 Sep 2008, 7:57 am

No I don't..i have said before i don't mind killing for food its just people who fox hunt don't kill the animals for food but for fun which is the most brutal thing you can do and is just wrong.

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ascan
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02 Sep 2008, 8:12 am

Xercies wrote:

...its just people who fox hunt don't kill the animals for food but for fun which is the most brutal thing you can do and is just wrong.

Foxes are vermin. If they're not hunted in the traditional way then they're poisoned or shot. Neither guarantees a clean kill. Killing is brutal however you do it, it's never quite as clean and easy as it's made out on TV. Anyway, killing vermin is a necessity in order that you get your pre-butchered, washed and packed lamb chops at Tesco. And, what's so wrong with people enjoying catching and killing vermin? It's quite normal to enjoy the pursuit of your quarry and a genetically controlled trait that was valuable to our survival before we were all herded into conurbations and enslaved as citizens of the state.

MR_BOGAN
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02 Sep 2008, 8:15 am

Before people start preaching on about how hunting animals is cruel, you should have a look at the lives the animals lead that you get from your local supermarket.

Xercies
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02 Sep 2008, 9:39 am

I dn't think foxes are just vermin they have a place in the animal soceity...and sodo rats for that matter...And I usually buy free range eggs...

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ascan
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02 Sep 2008, 10:16 am

Xercies wrote:

I dn't think foxes are just vermin they have a place in the animal soceity...and sodo rats for that matter...And I usually buy free range eggs...

Well, man has so altered the environment that they now have no, or few in the case of rats, natural predators. Moreover, in increasing hugely their food supply by farming etc. then unless we control their numbers they'll just reproduce until the population matches that food supply. Would you rather we all starved so our farmers could fatten a burgeoning population of rats and foxes? Vermin control is obviously necessary. So, if it has to be done why not enjoy it?

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02 Sep 2008, 12:03 pm

ascan wrote:

Xercies wrote:

Okay sometimes the farmers go into the hunt as well...but I still think its a horrible thing to do...

That's a straw-man. I grew up fishing for salmon with my father, and have killed more than a few myself. The fact that I eat fish and meat does not excuse me from wanting my food - and other animals in general - to suffer as little as possible on its way to my plate. Being torn limb from limb by a pack of hounds is a far cry from being shot or whacked on the head. The equivalent would be butchering a cow while it was still conscious.

Also, in some areas it's possible to get meat, poultry, and eggs that did not come from an industrial/factory setting (the area I happen to live in is blessed in that regard):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQkHhE_0qUE

intense
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02 Sep 2008, 12:19 pm

IMO there are 2 separate issues here, killing animals for sport (or fun) disgusts me utterly. Killing animals for food or to control over population is a sad necessity in which case the animal should be dispatched in the quickest most humane way possible.
I also believe livestock should be treated decently.

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ascan
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02 Sep 2008, 1:01 pm

intense wrote:

IMO there are 2 separate issues here, killing animals for sport (or fun) disgusts me utterly. Killing animals for food or to control over population is a sad necessity...

But they're not completely separate. Many enjoy the the pursuit and kill as part of population control or for obtaining a meal. Why does it disgust you that people are doing and enjoying something that's perfectly normal for humans to do? You know you should try it. You find that you soon lose all that emotional attachment to animals once you've wrung the necks of a few, and put them on the barbecue. And that's how it should be.

ascan
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02 Sep 2008, 1:17 pm

LKL wrote:

...That's a straw-man.

Yes, scarecrows make good objects for target practice, but they tend to be more than a little dry on the palate, you know.

LKL wrote:

... I grew up fishing for salmon with my father, and have killed more than a few myself....

I fish, too. Had a few salmon off the Tweed up in Scotland in my time. Do you flyfish?

But regarding the matter at hand, I think you're engaging in a little anthropomorphism, there. At first thought it may seem terrifying to us being ripped to bits by hounds, but as far as suffering goes, in reality it's over in seconds. Compare that with a .22 in the guts, and a lingering death -- what do you think? If the fox is caught by hounds it's dead in minutes at most. No half measures. Compare that with being shot or poisoned, where there are no guarantees.

I really don't like to see unnecessary suffering, either. But if you think you can kill without any suffering whatsoever, then you're just kidding yourself.

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