Is anyone else sick of the anti-NT bias?

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The premise is flawed. They do NOT lack a neurological impairment. They are more impaired than we are. They just happen to be in the majority, thus the name "typical" rather than words like "normal" or "proper."

They are an easy target BECAUSE they are so large. Like hitting the broad side of a barn or
shooting fish in a barrel. Ya can't miss. It's nice to play a game I can win once in a while.
Hey - wanna see me make an NT dance?

Last edited by Tahitiii on 12 Dec 2008, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anyone else sick of the anti aspergers bias of the world?

Yes, I was, now I make my world an aspie one, filled with aspies online and in real life and a few NTs here and there, where they tolerate me Some even seem to be quite fond of me

Can I move in with you?

i don't like anti NT bias or anti asperger bias. they both suck majorly.

I twat I saw words of wisdom,
I did, I did see words of wisdom.

I also do not like prejudice. To me it is a willful decision to be intellectually lazy. Why be anti on someone or something for some innate trait that is neither innately good or innately bad? Surely there is enough in the world to feel negative about without manufacturing superficial reasons to hate or disparage?

I've seen what I would consider a lot of "NT-bashing" here and it does annoy me.

I doubt any of us like it when people generalize about autistic people, and yet many members on this site seem perfectly willing to make sweeping generalizations about nearly every other group you can think of (racial groups, gender groups, sexual orientation groups, religious groups, political groups, and so on).

I find it bothersome and it is one of the reasons I don't spend all that much time on this site.

There is me, and non me, how dare they.

I do see something spatial about it. my mental picture is the sun, while most bubbles and boils on the surface, and flows seemlessly into the next space, and the whole surface seems the same, plus sun spots, flares, and other things I have no understanding of, about it all is a corona, less matter, more energy, still bound to the same system.

The surface does have most, the corona little, but while it has a sameness, it is also all looking out in a different direction.

I am in that part, it also flows and boils, and we connect well at the edges.

No one shares my view, or the chain of views I have passed through, and I cannot know their's.

We meet well at the edges, and exchange energy, and such things are always equal.

I did not cause the crash of the world economy, no one here did. I saw it coming, several did, and posted about it. No one listens to us, but we were right, we being the one's who said so.

It shows an awareness of people, the business structures, the cause and effect of economics, and one of those people was Alan Greenspan, who cited "Irrational exuberence" in the markets. I dont think he posts here, but he was a musician and good friend of Ayn Rand.

There is work for visionaries, for people who will speak of facts over political dreams or social classes.

Coming out of this Depression will take the work of people who can think without restraint.

All the kings horses and all the kings men, cannot put it together again. Short term thinking worked for a short term.

There is a general dissatisfaction with the way things are, and they are going to get a lot worse.

What I have seen is we never take over, but it will be our thought taken by others that leads us out of this mess.

We do have a function of discovering the details, bringing them together in a whole, and then others can grasp that whole.

Looking close we see what was always there, we are not creators or inovaters, but good observers.

We are the eyes and minds of our species.

It takes being alone, not very social, and I still do not understand my drive for constant learning, but it is becoming useful.

We have the persistance, the singlemindedness to follow an idea through years of development, like that Gates fellow who punched holes in strips of paper for years. The punchcard was at least a hundred years old, but he made punched tape. It lead to the greatest increase in productivity in history.

The only thing that will break this downward spiral is a new vision of life, technology, and all of the rich who dominated things seem to be broke, and the political leaders the subject of jokes, and arrests.

Only ideas can create a future, and we have lots of those.

Our NT brothers and sisters know they followed fools and fads to thier destruction, it is best not mentioned. What they want to hear is the way out.

Following a great disaster, in history, comes a period of clear and logical thinking. Human advance come quickly and without limit after the old have failed.

We are on the doorstep of the greatest age of mankind.

A new view of the world and how it should work is coming, and we are good at that sort of thing.

Well maybe when my spare room is empty again, you would like it, its quiet in the back room and in the middle of the city so plenty of fun things to do and its full of aspies if you know where to go

It's so hard for you to stop parsing semantics, isn't it. It's like, you know that semantic-pragmatics is at issue, but you just can't stop yourself from parsing... so bizarre. You just don't get the idea at all.



Sora, again, I see your criticism of the use of language that you think is unfair to "NTs", like referring to non-AS as "NTs", is more about dinging the verbal skills and semantics of AS people. By loading their semantic usage with value judgments, you are making their (our) neurologically based language development issue out to be some lack of consideration. You expect a certain amount of sensitivity in the semantics AS use to talk about their NT experiences (even to the point of not using the term "NT"), and you seem to think that if AS were more considerate, they could be that sensitive. Perhaps the behavior you are offended by is not as intentional as you think. Who is the guy who punches the crippled kid who accidentally pile drives into his side? He's the guy who doesn't realize that the kid is crippled.



I don't agree with that. The whole thing about having a non-verbal, verbal issue is that you can see or feel a thing in your mind, and not have the verbal mind to talk about it. What you are describing is how a normal person's semantic maps and rhetorical framework exists, not AS.

When I start talking in any new area, my mind and personality comes across as very disordered, and my speech is chaotic and all over the map. As I talk (write) the ideas about how to say something form AFTER I say them. So the corner of my mind that will support discussion of that topic doesn't form until I start engaging in it. Then, after I write, I can look at the stream of consciousness and the set of words and meanings, and say "That is what I really was trying to say", "this didn't come out at all as what I was trying to say" and "this was just a blurt that had no real meaning". Then I have to go back and try to fix that part of the semantics that were off. So I have to expressly build and maintain my semantic maps.

I don't think it's that hard to understand/talk to semantic-pragmatic people. I think that if you can refrain from projecting too much of what you have in your head into the words of others, and don't take offense at implications or what you think are intentional connotations and disrespect, you can understand what the semantic-pragmatic person is trying to say.

And yes, you have to look past the words, and sometimes whole sentences, to see what they are trying to say.



It is very offensive for people to be slapping moralizing judgments around for people's behavior that is due to their disabilities. The condescending moralizing about bigotry, etc. was condescending bigotry against the semantics of discussion of semantic-pragmatic disordered people.

I've repeatedly asked for some examples of the "NT bashing" and if your pointing to the use of the term "NT" is about as good as you can come up with, then I think that using that as a basis for making condescending moral judgments about people's posts using the semantics of their language, like "NT", means that you're kind of intentionally acting like an ass to semantically disabled people, and you are the one acting out a bias.



No, but here I've been asking for specifics and talking about literal, concrete examples, and all I've been seeing are bigoted, biased comments about AS traits and AS people and how they talk about NT behavior, and I certainly haven't seen anything consistent with how an AS person would criticize something. Just the vagueness, the ambiguity, the moral superiority about semantically unsophisticated speech of AS -- making value judgments about them as people based on their semantics when in fact you are dumping on their limited speech skills -- that is all so NT. We get that all the time in NT-world. This thread hasn't been an AS thread about anti-NT bias, this thread has been typical, tired and very, very familiar condescending NT bigotry interpreting AS traits as "bad" behavior and AS people who try to discuss NT behavior as "bad" AS people.

If it walks like a duck...

I'm going to get off this thread. I'm arguing with a bunch of NT's and AS-wanna-bes. It's been nine pages, and none of those who appear to be NTs (or NTs who imagine they have AS) has offered any useful arguments, just the kind of fuzzy-thinking, "you know what I mean", social-instinct based posturing that they think is what comprises real discussion of social behavior. Intellectually sparse ego-chatter.

Of course, that is a part of the reason why I was diagnosed with an ASD. Seeing how it still can be partly synonyms with lacking empathy and TOM in different degrees.

But you are saying I'm not autistic anyway, don't you. Basically saying I'm lying.


Whatever, if you do not understand what I said, there's no use discussing it again. It may be a language issue, but then, that's as far as I can go with explaining it.



Why the bullying? Laypeople undiagnosing other people is an attack at them.

From my understanding, this seems to be (only?) because you seem to have the wrong notion of what AS means. Seeing how you said that you expect people with AS to react in a certain way. I've had bad experiences with such people who seem to associate something incorrect with AS/all ASDs. The clashing of the definition of autism and this false unofficial definition often leads to that either party ends up angered or miserable.

'All what people on the autistic spectrum have in common is their autism.' I think this whole argument illustrates the meaning of that sentence rather well.

I have to say Sora, that I agree with you. I am seeing only my own flavor of AS and not seeing the whole uniqueness thing.

And I am personalizing too much my sense of persecution by NTs. I was bullied by a sociopath (twice) and then I developed these skills to be a mean as*hole and bully in response to bullying to protect myself from those people, and that keeps popping out here.

I apologize if you felt bullied by my last post. I have a theory that says that the person who feels bullied is the best judge of whether the behavior (intentional or not) was bullying. So I have to accept your feeling on that matter. Looking at the post, I did express a personalized negativity toward people who sound like NTs when they criticize AS, and that was an unnecessary personalized judgment. So if you felt that was bullying, you are probably right and I owe you an apology.

Looking over the posts in this thread, it seems to me that I have a negative bias and hostility against NTs who criticize AS people. In fact, that seems to be a poisonous resentment I have. Looking over other posts where I have become upset, it all seems to be kind of similar in that way. Maybe this is something I have to take to therapy...

I believe that my points about semantics and etc. are valid, but I also see that I have a negative bias against anyone I perceive as NT picking on AS, and a tendency to hit back too hard.

I'm sorry if I insulted you or judged you unfairly about your post about treating people considerably being about semantics.

I am not anti-Aspie and I am not anti-NT. It's stupid to be against either 'group' just because of how they are, espceially as each individual in each group is just that - an individual. Stereotypes and generalisations are silly.

This is an interesting opposition viewpoint -- and quite valid. When people start talking about social behavior and biases, it's mind-expanding to turn the rhetorical tables on a sometimes-oppressive majority that assumes that "normal" is synonymous with okayness.

I am in favor of persecution by NT's. I cannot see myself as others do. They are helpful.

Of course, they can expect the same favor in return.

Nothing wrong with social equality.

I also enjoy the single minded views of one ASD seeking to make their view a Unified Field Theory.

The harder they try the less ASDs could exist. Hence everyone else must be an NT secret agent, or ASD Poser.

There is some truth in that, as every sunbeam knows, all the rest are heading in the wrong direction.

Autism=Self

NT persecution has it's limits, they only have an outsider view.

Persecution of ASDs by ASDs works better, for, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

There is a language problem, Psychobabble terms are so NT. They cannot understand, so they seek something that they think is common to a class, and hang a lable on it. When facts appear that contradict this learned method, they invent another lable.

Nothing could be as pure as Autism=Self, but now it has filled the DSM with dozens of spinoffs.

If you do not agree, you are Oppositional Defiant Disorder. If you would rather avoid ever seeing someone, you are Social Avoidant Disorder.

I can see how the NT brain needs these crutchs, the same pattern as when the church set out to define all the demons of hell, their earthly allies, and choices of underwear. Psychobabble is a religion.

They are dependant on others agreeing with them. I have enough problem agreeing with Self.

When these alien to me terms are brought here, I see a Colonial invasion, demanding that the Natives speak the language of the overlords, and accept thier world view.

From their view everyone else is wrong, so for our own good they have abolished our history, culture, language, and world view. We have to agree, for it was done at Psychobabble Headquarters.

I for one chose the path of my heart and my ancestors, and see no merit in this newly invented religion that opposes common sense.

Our people can express their thoughts in their words, there is no need for invoking Latin.

The only Unified Field Theory of Autism is, they are all different, each a culture of one.

I agree that Colonial words are a weapon used against native culture. Their trick is to make you look ignorant, go look up the meaning, and then argue in their words. Looking deeper, we find that based on a study of three hand selected subjects, over a half hour or more, something was given a lable, a paper was published, and now that term is to apply to all people forever.

Psycho babble is not a Science, nor is it recognized by Medicine, yet they pretend to both.

They claim knowledge, seek converts, then send them out to spread thier words, sowing confusion that they can then profit from.

I reject their words, world view, religion, and don't like missionaries. Many true belivers are sent here on a mission, and protected by an explosive vest. The destruction of native culture is very important to their business plan, and making mayrters is cheap marketing.

It is as Malcome X said, "Who taught you to hate yourself?" Who told you that being Black was wrong?

On the contrary--it's VERY AS to focus in on things we see as pecular. It's VERY AS to analyze everything. It's very AS to discuss how views held by the AS community can backfire and be used against us. And it's very AS to wonder why it's not OK for others to discriminate against us, but it's PERFECTLY acceptable for AS people to make blanket statements casting all NTs as narrow-minded conformist bullies.

Considering it's how AS people talk about non-autistic people, I'd say it's very relevant.


Also, regarding one of your MANY other posts, you say you were bullied by an NT sociopath. But sociopaths aren't neurotypical. Which was it?