TYPES of ASD individuals from a professional source
I was probably mostly SASC as a kid and now Im mostly WISC: around 75% WISC, 15% SASC and 10% NSC. The WISC was very accurate, its pretty cool when I literally find articles that match me extremely well as in I find pretty good explanations that are so spot on. This explains why when I first started telling people that I have aspergers, barely any1 believed me. They say something about how we can "talk the talk" but not "walk the walk", thats soo accurate for me. My knowledge of social settings and what to do in social situations is very high, I have more knowledge then some of my NT friends, but Im still socially awkward, I cant apply it. Meanwhile my NT friends more so know how to intuitively apply things. Yep very high risk for developing mood disorders. I've had social anxiety my entire life and went thru 4-5 years of depression They say if born extroverts we monopolize the conversation, if born introverts we withdraw. I do both. I was mostly born introverted, so I withdraw more often. Its interesting that they said we stay in the same catagories mostly thruout our lives. Id think its possible to move from what catagory to another? who knows, i aint a professional
Thanks to kfisherx for posting this and also for starting up the very looooong post about social skills training. I've just read through both of them with absolute fascination.
I have made it through my life with few real problems and only realised I was quite firmly 'on the scale' in my mid 30s after entering into a relationship with a guy who was highly intelligent but severely affected by Aspergers, anxiety, depression, social phobias etc. We were talking about some aspect of his condition one day and he said 'Shut up, you're exactly the same.' Talk about an epiphany. LOL! Since then I've got an official diagnosis (aged 36) from a team of specialists who expressed surprise that my life was fairly normal and that I wasn't plagued by depression, anxiety, coping problems etc.
Basically I appear almost completely NT. I can pass for 'normal' in almost any situation. Nowadays it's rare that I'm seen as anything other than very mildly eccentric and even then it's usually just in terms of having unusual hobbies and interests and not conforming to standard gender stereotypes. But I have and I still do put an enormous amount of effort into achieving this appearance and it's the difference between my internal mental processes and their external reception by others that I find so interesting.
I didn't know what executive functioning meant but after googling for a definition I realised that I have major problems with it. I didn't know what stimming meant then when I found out (ditto google) I realised I'd been doing it internally my whole life. I realised that in my late 20s I had made a deliberate effort to mimic others and 'learned' how to do small talk with random strangers. I realised that I actually concentrated step-by-step on how to walk normally without consciously thinking about it. I realised that during social interactions I had been referring to a kind of 'mental flow chart' in my head that prompted appropriate reactions to a wide range of sentences and topics. I realised that I shut down when I get stressed but that I'd always been pretty good at hiding it.
Maybe a better way of explaining it would be to say that I suppose I did on some level realise I was doing all these things but I honestly had had no idea that everybody else around me wasn't constantly doing them too. I recently expressed this to someone and they looked at me as if I was speaking a different language, which I suppose I kind of was, to them...
Anyhoo... I'm not sure about the ST-SC thing. I'd say I'm probably WISC, but that's after 14+ years of subtle social coaching by a mother who refused to think of me as anything other than academically gifted but socially oblivious and my own 30+ years of unconsciously striving to adapt and fit in. If I'd been brought up elsewhere I can easily imagine a very different outcome...
That right there is the story of my life! Still is.
Verdandi
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Joined: 7 Dec 2010
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Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
Not sure I understand - most of the people who fit into these categories are autistic.
Also, the writers were two women.
I think I am quite strongly ESC. I also relate to quite a bit of CSC, so I think I am either weakly CSC or strongly ESC.
That being said, I have judged myself for my entire life as having far superior social skills that I apparently really do have (and I have almost always, since I was able to think about it one way or another, thought that I was fairly weak in the social department.)
Stole this from anbuend, and tweaked it to represent myself:
ESC (Emerging Social Communicator)
[Note: All of these may apply also to CSC but in more extreme ways]
* Awkwardly engaged
* Issues may not be apparent without verbally relating to the person for a few minutes
* Likely to evolve into a less extreme presentation as individual gets older
* Social presentation represents what people classically think of as HFA or AS, but some initially diagnosed with ADHD
* May be put into a group with WISCs because of similar levels of cognition or language, but ESC will lag behind others in group
* Greater need for basic social lessons
* IQ related intelligence measures span from intellectually challenged to bright, gifted for verbal or performance IQ or both
* Have a weak social radar system, not highly in tune with what is happening around them from a social situational perspective
* Socially aloof
* Have a range of sensory integration issues (that are prominent even when young)
* Self-stimulatory behavior (flapping, toe walking, rocking, food sensitivities, etc.)
* History of language learning delay or disorder
* Usually desire social interaction, but struggle to relate to peers of their own age without facilitation
* Seeks out interactions with adults
* Some have an unusual tone of voice or a loud voice
* Weak at tracking what others are talking about and making related comments or asking questions
* Odd postures or rigid movements when communicating or sharing space with others
* Weak at reading situational and physical social cues (facial, gestural, tonal, etc.)
* Weak at understanding their own and others' emotions
* Lack social nuance when compared to peer group
* Show perseveration in thoughts or interests; may have unusual interests compared to age matched peers (may develop strong specific skills in these areas)
* Inefficient at thinking through social perspective taking
* Usually need extra time to process and respond to social information
* Most likely to fail early theory of mind tests when in preschool/early elementary school, but may pass them as they get older not sure
* Most if not all are delayed in joint attention not sure
* Many are weak in development of pronouns in preschool and early elementary school not sure
* More literal and rigid interpretation of spoken and written language, likely to impact ability to interpret reading of literature
* Many have auditory processing deficits/CAPD
* Most have significant executive functioning difficulties affecting homework and written expression
* Anxiety related to how the world works, less social anxiety
* Weak at critical thinking and problem solving required for 4th/5th grade and beyond
* Poor self-awareness of how they're being perceived
* Poor adaptive functioning skills
* Strong scientific visual learning strengths (but may not have this)
* Enjoy slapstick humor (irony and sarcasm harder to grasp, but older students may develop knack for it)
* Motivated to do well when given behavioral systems and cognitive explanation
* Weaknesses recognizing others' communication intentions and more likely to not recognize when people may have poor intentions (e.g. weak comprehension of stranger danger)
* Have difficulty paying attention in groups (classroom size) and often even in relatively small groups (3 or 4 people)
* Difficulty adapting to social behavior of peers
* Tend to stand out from the group as socially unusual or awkward
* Early strong characteristics always present and observable in preschool and early elementary school
* Early years, often lack natural development of joint attention and require intervention to understand others have thoughts different from their own
* Intensity of symptoms may gradually be minimized with therapeutic intervention combined with maturity, so by middle or high school may appear to have much milder symptoms (parents and professionals mistakenly then think the person is no longer autistic at all)
* More rigid cognitive patterns and weak theory of mind persist as weak compared to overall intellectual level
* Face extra burdens as they get into upper elementary school and beyond because weak critical thinking and social problem solving
* Sensory-seeking or less attentive when overwhelmed or placed in large group environments
* Weak social radar systems prevent efficient learning in "group think" situations
* Much better at concentrating and learning when only required to focus social attention in a smaller group (1-3 other people)
* Often placed in large group situations because measured IQ/learning ability may test as average or higher [In childhood] this doesn't really apply to my situation--we went into large or small groups based on what the activity was. There was nothing special for me for any reason
* Lack understanding of how to modulate behavior in a group -- results in talking out of turn, talking for an extended length of time, inability to work well in peer based groups
* Often enjoys being around others
* Off-topic, tangential, or perseverative in communication, but still enjoy communicating with a variety of listeners
* Very good sense of humor
* In spite of stereotypes as "anti-social", many actively seek social connection with one or two people (often enjoy befriending others who function much like themselves)
* Often celebrated early in development for incredible honesty
* Tend to struggle with "stranger danger" when young because they don't understand others may try to manipulate them, so at risk for being easily tricked
* Some students trick them for fun and others can trick them in ways that put them in danger -- this continues to adulthood
* Stand out as "awkward and odd", but have limited self-awareness
* Peer group is far more forgiving of their differences than for SASC and WISC
* Friendship clubs and mentoring programs usually ideally designed for them
* May not realize social hierarchy of playground/school so only want to be friends with peer groups that are not a natural fit for their social ability
* Lack of knowledge about social dynamics of the group, may think they're being included when others laugh around them or make comments
* Always has issues with being overly literal
* Process language as a surface structure without realizing most language requires social inferencing to determine intended message
* Most are able to learn how to decode written language well and comprehend factual information
* Difficult to comprehend literature or social nuance of classroom, sarcasm
* Very weak narrative language, verbal or written
* Some have artful ability to convey their own thoughts in writing based on their own interests and perspective if they're able to create written work free from others' guidelines and expectations
* Most are highly disorganized and over-focus on details and lack conceptual thinking
* Many struggle to summarize thoughts or write summary-based information (book reviews), etc.
* Most need extensive assistance to understand the myriad of social and work expectations delivered each school day
* Most ESCs experience anxiety tied to imperfections of how the world actually works compared to the way they think the world should work
* Struggle with transitions, understanding what may be next on their schedule, or why schedule may need to change any given day
* Easily confused in dynamic social environments, which may lead to emotional or sensory dysregulation
* Does not have severe social anxiety
* Persistent anxiety about complexities of the world can overwhelm them, especially in preschool and elementary school, but may calm a bit with age and maturity (yet still pronounced compared to NSC peers)
* Difficult to find employment without assistance given weak interview skills
* Can be highly productive and successful workers
* Work peers will continue to notice their more obvious social, critical thinking and problem solving weaknesses and provide them with extra assistance or mentoring, without feeling insulted by their lack of nuanced social emotional sensitivity
* If they can find employment, likely to be employed for a long time
* In adulthood, continue to struggle to learn social nuance and sophistication and still seem a bit awkward and odd to NT work and community peers
* More obvious lack of understanding may be helpful because others are more likely to be forgiving of social errors when they know the person can't help it
* Real lack of social critical thinking, struggle with jobs that require personal problem solving
* Best when engaging in tasks where they work around others but aren't required to interact dynamically with others as part of their job description -- many are excellent scientists, computer programmers, horticulturalists, animal scientists, etc.
* Some intellectually very gifted, others may have borderline verbal intelligence
* Many have stronger visual learning than auditory processing
* Many excellent text decoders and can read (decode) early in development
* Do best academically in early years of school when attention to detail makes them strong rote learners
* Can excel as they age in areas related to interests
* Higher level or solid ESCs can become wonderful students as devoted to following routines, which include studying
* If born to a temperament or encouraged to develop a pattern of engaging in hard work and tenacity, may become quite successful at meeting academic course requirements, even if unable to fully understand the work
* Many high level adult ESCs who live most of their life achieving different university degrees
* May be good at studying information but not as able to apply it outside the classroom, and, when unable to find employment, return to university to seek another degree - this subgroup can excel at learning in a structured environment
* Early in development, often can impress others with ability to learn basic academics with relatively little guidance (e.g. learning to decode text independently before 5 years old)
* Many run into more complicated learning problems as approach curriculum of nine and ten year olds (when critical thinking and problem solving are used to participate in curriculum)
* Reading comprehension of literature, fiction, greeting cards, ads, etc. continues to be difficult throughout lifetime
* Very focused on interests and find comfort in familiarity, able to enjoy and excel in jobs or careers that may seem redundant to others
* Easier groups to formally assess because they have verbal language skills by the time they are in elementary school but more likely to score poorly on tests of pragmatic language and problem solving
* Easier to document social awkwardness because they tend to lack social chameleon-like behavior
* Tend to be more formal or polite in all social situations
* More literal in language and non-verbal cues
* Struggling to keep abreast of the growing critical thinking demands of academic topics that require social thinking, such as reading comprehension, written expression and abstract ideas conveyed in middle and high school social studies lessons
* Comprehend more fact based information
* Struggle to interpret information based on predicting what people are thinking and feeling
* Many struggle with tackling grade level curriculum in middle and high school even if test scores in given subject (such as reading comprehension) indicate they are functioning at grade level
* Struggles to relate to peers in a manner expected of developmental age and measured IQ
* Some struggle to figure out how to enter into peer groups and initiate social language and non-verbal communication to actively maintain interaction within the group
* Others with more assertive personalities may barge into peer groups and dominate the conversation without realizing they are out of step with peers
* Tend to be far more naive than peer group, not anticipating others motives, making them more susceptible to being tricked or bullied without knowing it's happening to them
* Weak self-awareness of social ability
* Live with guided independence across adult years
* Slow to leave the home due to naive understanding of the world and limited social and adaptive development, which slows but does not eliminate their march towards independence
* Many live independently but have a trusted team of adults to help when dealing with social critical thinking and significant social critical thinking and significant changes in routine (for instance, a 32-year-old with AS lived in own apartment, prepared own meals, maintained hygiene, took bus around community, paid bills, maintained job, and kept apartment relatively clean, but when life changes occurred he needed parents to problem solve)
Challenged Social Communicator (CSC)
* Highly distracted in unstructured social situations but more capable in highly structured situations
* Tend to be easily recognized by obvious social learning challenges from very early age
* Exhibit many if not all the features of the ESC but more extreme characteristics
* Usually overwhelmed in unstructured social contexts because of very weak social radar system
* Detail focused, missing the gestalt
* Severe context blindness -- weakness socially but helps them attend more actively to details the NSC may not have noticed not sure I understand this one...
* Often highly focused on area of interests while having limited social attention span
* Often gaze around room when more than one person is communicating in a group and have extremely limited attention in a classroom setting
* Sometimes described as "aloof", still demonstrate interest when interacting with others but struggle to maintain attention to another when a person does not relate to them about topics or games that are of interest to them
* Struggles tremendously to attend and learn in overwhelming group environments throughout entire lifetime
* May be sensory-seeking when feeling overwhelmed
* Extensive sensory regulation challenges
* Anxiety centered exclusively on changes in world including routines, people, environment, etc.
* Do not experience social anxiety
* Not only have history of expressive and receptive language challenges, these challenges continue across lifetime
* Lack the ability to develop sophisticated linguistic structures
* Lack the ability to comprehend complex abstract reasoning not sure exactly what this would mean
* All of these students have difficulty both acquiring accurate and rapid use of pronouns in conversational speech, and with most if not all learned language through the early use of echolalia
* Some form of echolalia may continue into adulthood
* Development of joint attention markedly reduced
* Clearly fails basic two Theory of Mind tests at 4-6 years old but will persist in struggling tremendously with these concepts across a lifetime not sure....never took theory of mind test
* Concept of mental manipulation may be able to be taught to them cognitively/conceptually to some extent with direct and intensive teaching as they move into upper elementary and middle school if they have near normal intelligence, but extremely weak in applying this knowledge fluidly in less structured situations
* More severe weaknesses than others in recognizing stranger danger
* Lacking abstract language-based reasoning
* Tendency to over-focus on details
* Struggle tremendously with inference and prediction
* Very weak in socially based critical thinking and problem solving
* Struggle to discern reality from fiction in childhood and even adolescence
* Perspective taking needs to be actively taught i don't know what this mean
* Often able to learn with direct instruction how to understand others' perspectives while playing games
* Common not to be able to properly whisper to another or know how to hide their cards ****as a child more than now though***
* Good at decoding factual text
* Can also be good with math calculations
* Many excel at reading decoding and can quickly do basic math problems
* Commonplace to lack ability to comprehend inferential information such as that conveyed through math word problems, etc.
* As curriculum becomes more inferentially based, struggle tremendously to complete schoolwork independently only to a certain extent.
* Spoken and written expression difficult compared to NSC peers
* Struggle tremendously with narrative language
* Peers and adults intuitively determine they have trouble conveying a message accurately ad will use 20 questions to try and figure out what they're trying to communicate
* Awareness of time passage and sense of urgency often very difficult to a slight degree sometimes
* When given tasks, they struggle to appear to others as if motivated to do the task because they approach it slowly and often unfocused as they move through it
* Not accidental learners -- don't absorb new learning simply from being exposed to new experiences
* Have to be explicitly taught concepts related to social learning and social skills
* Limited to no self-awareness
* Can't perceive what others are thinking about them
* Peer group are quick to see they're atypical and more forgiving of differences than they are for SASC, RSC, and WISC
* May do well in specific work environment
* Struggle throughout life with change
* Extreme focus on details without ability to understand how those details connect to form conceptual thinking to learn new skills or complete task
* Must relearn all steps of a task if required to do the same task in a new environment
* Generalization of learning difficult not sure what this means
* Once employed in a predictable/routine job, tend to keep it
* Most comfortable adhering to a schedule
* Once they're taught how to use a system of transportation to move around community, usually punctual and can learn to be more and more efficient in productivity
* Lack basic social problem solving, but adults in community become familiar with them and often look out for them
* Most have splinter skills in academic skills, such as ability to decode or remember and state factual information
* Visual learning strengths over auditory processing (but not universal)
* Concrete thinkers
* Crave/need structure for best performance
* Finds comfort in routine and predictability
* May do very well in jobs based in redundancy and routines
* Often interesting, delightful personalities with own unique preferences, not only in activities but in who they choose to spend time with
* Interesting view of the world ??? Maybe?
* Excellent sense of humor
* Although the world can seem overwhelming, once strong treatment programs are in place, can enjoy achieving success and feeling proud of accomplishments
* Score poorly on most if not all social language tests and tests of problem solving
* Expressive and receptive language learning issues
* Tests of adaptive functioning typically show strong deficits in social and communication areas, if not other areas as well
* Qualifying for treatment is not typically the problem, the more difficult consideration becomes determining which treatments should be utilized at different times in their development to help them function as independently as possible
* Placing in full-inclusion to have them strictly learn curriculum of age group will not provide them with the functional adaptive skills they need for navigating adulthood
* Lack of social understanding obvious to peer group which helps them rally support from others
* School age peers and adults are likely to lend support without being told to do so
* Tendency to over-focus on facts
* Lack of conceptualizing makes them much more difficult to teach
* Will not transfer idea that math lessons to count money have anything to do with using money in the community
* Virtually all need paraprofessionals and later job coaches to help them acquire basic understanding of how to participate in specific situations
* May require significant guidance throughout adult years
* More successful CSC can live with guarded independence throughout adult years, meaning they may live in apartment or group home and follow their routines independently, once learned
* Need to be actively monitored because they may not realize when a problem may be arising
* Able to learn skills to become employed in a variety of highly structured and routine-based jobs
* Do not benefit or excel in university programs focused on academic performance
* Tend to be more hands-on leaners
* Don't easily apply information from one context to the next
Sorry to come in so late to the conversation, but what you talk about here interests me a lot. This research interests me too, but I think I need more time to absorb it before I can talk intelligently about it.
The thing you said that really caught my attention here was when you talked about not understanding the people who come here with complaints about loneliness. It drew my attention because beyond the occasional person confused about what ASD really entails (those who come here under the impression that social difficulties are the whole of the disorder), I can't say that I see too many people here with those kinds of complaints. Or if I do, I suppose I tend to not take note of them because I assume that they experience loneliness the same way that I do.
When you talk about loneliness there, you seem to be talking about what I would describe as “NT loneliness,” which I would define as being a loneliness borne from an innate desire to have friendships. Basically, it’s the typical definition of loneliness.
What I experience (and what I assume everyone here is experiencing when they talk about loneliness) is what I would describe as “AS loneliness,” which I would define as being a loneliness borne out of having such a limited social life that it is actually mentally unhealthy, both in terms of putting the individual at risk for depression and in terms of failing by one’s own standards.
I don’t mean to make this one of those “please tell me whether or not I have AS” moments, but I feel like explaining my personal situation will help to illustrate my point. If you get to this point and feel that you have a proper understanding of what I mean, feel free to skip to the next section. I’m going to stick this section in a quote box to separate it. Having it all as one massive paragraph was an eyesore.
After roughly a year of my social interaction being limited almost entirely to my immediate family and in-class discussions, I felt lonely. For me, that loneliness was much more than a mere desire to have friends. It was mainly a recognition that I was failing socially that caused me distress. The most troubling aspect was that I was simply disappointed in myself (having no idea about AS at the time) for not having friends. It was a sign of my own abnormality and my own failures. I was also beginning to recognize that my quality of life had dropped since I lost my friends, and my lack of socialization was probably to blame for my continued mild depression.
It was in recognizing these things that I began to experience a strong desire for friendship which I eventually fulfilled by joining an honors fraternity on campus, where friends were basically assigned to me and stressful events like parties or hangouts were replaces with scheduled events to sew blankets or play kickball. And now that it is summer, I’m perfectly fine with not communicating with my new friends again until August. (Which, incidentally, I think might be making my new friends mad, but that’s a story for another time.)
I still experience the same kind of loneliness when it comes to romantic relationships, however. I feel as if I am missing major milestones in development by being 20 years old and never having gone on a proper date. Not being in a relationship distresses me because I recognize how unnatural it is. Many of my peers are already in “serious” relationships. Several are already pregnant and/or married. To make matters worse, I see my sister who is five years younger than me go through all these normal milestones of development that I've missed, which only reinforces my feelings of abnormality. While I do have some interest in being in a relationship just to see what I’ve been “missing out” on, overall I don’t have any desire to have that sort of connection with someone. It seems like much more trouble than it’s worth. But at the same time I feel “lonely” and want a relationship because I recognize how this isolates me from my peers. (And distresses my mother greatly.)
I do experience some measure of “NT loneliness.” Being entirely without peer socialization does, I’ve noted, tend to leave me mildly depressed. However, the main impetus of my actions socially is “AS loneliness.”
But to the point: What I wanted to ask you was which kind of loneliness you were seeing in people here (mainly the ones you describe as being on the more high-functioning end of the scale than yourself who you have difficulty relating to), and what loneliness you have experienced yourself, if any? If you have experienced a long period of time in which you had a very limited social life (by your own standards, not those of the NT world), did you feel lonely in that situation? If so, was it more of an “NT” or “AS loneliness”? Or did neither experience apply to you?
I don’t mean to pry or over-analyze, it’s only that you brought up a different perspective that I found interesting and wished to learn more about.
But to the point: What I wanted to ask you was which kind of loneliness you were seeing in people here (mainly the ones you describe as being on the more high-functioning end of the scale than yourself who you have difficulty relating to), and what loneliness you have experienced yourself, if any? If you have experienced a long period of time in which you had a very limited social life (by your own standards, not those of the NT world), did you feel lonely in that situation? If so, was it more of an “NT” or “AS loneliness”? Or did neither experience apply to you?
I don’t mean to pry or over-analyze, it’s only that you brought up a different perspective that I found interesting and wished to learn more about.
Seriously.. I don't have the experiences you do where you realize that you should have friends but do not. I am really very content in my own little world. when I am alone. That said, I do the same thing as you whereby I shut the whole world out if something bad happens to me (like when my Father died for example) and after some time, I do start to do things that look like depression. Not eat and not exercise for example... as to what other people complain about, just read some of the posts here. People whine all the time about not having friends or being unable to make friends. I do not have this issue at all.
We all have some of each... Your bucket is the one that has the MOST matches. I am very squarely in the ESC bucket. My guess is that you will land there too.
Wow, that's very interesting. Especially considering that from this it seems like that even though you really have little to no desires or needs socially, but still seem to require socialization on some level in order to improve your quality of life. I mean, you read in psychology books how human beings are by nature social creatures and cannot function properly without a social life, but I think it's interesting that even though you are without that natural social instinct or need you still benefit from socializing with others. It's just kind of interesting proof that human beings do work like the book say they do. : )
I wonder how much of this sort of thing is dependent not on ASDs or communication styles, but simply dependent on personality type. Not that I can say I know much about you at all, but on first impression you strike me as a very strong individual, the kind of person who is proactive and independent. It seems like you're not the kind of person who spends their time feeling sorry for themselves. "Confident in your own abilities" might be a good way to put it. As I said, it's just a first impression, but I think this might have something to do with it as well.
By the way, thanks for replying to something so old! And thanks for linking that article. It's very interesting.
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