It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?

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Bipolar or Narcissistic Personality Disorder?
Even trained professionals may find it difficult to distinguish between these two conditions, since the differences are subtle.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/bipolar-d ... order.aspx



http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sto ... -disorders



http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Personalit ... ptoms.aspx


It's very very hard to distinguish some of these things. That's why professional diagnosis is important. It's also important to have the correct label; otherwise, you don't know the root cause of the symptoms, so how can you address them?

For example, is my behavior due primarily to variations in self-esteem or with over-responding to the environment and not being able to regulate emotions? I don't know. (differentiating NPD and BPD/bipolar)

Do I really not care to be in any sort of close friendship or relationship, or am I just afraid of being abandoned, so I do what I need to do to avoid situations where I might be abandoned? I don't know. (differentiating BPD and NPD)

Do my erroneous perceptions cause mood swings, or do my mood swings cause erroneous perceptions? (differentiating NPD/BPD vs. bipolar)

EDIT: I am also getting my allergy test results back next week. I have heard that intolerance to things as varied as gluten and fructate and even saliclylates can cause mental health disorders via inflammation of the limbic system. I imagine Borderline Personality Disorder would be a prime candidate for being allergy-induced. I once read a case in a scientific journal about Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder being caused primarily by Lyme Disease.

^^^
Oh okay, I didn't realize the triggers and regular cycles were found to be good for differentiating the two...interesting.

I agree that it's important to get a professional diagnosis-better from a specialist and to get the right label. This is especially true in your case as Bipolar Disorder can be medicated. It is very hard, as you said. I would just say don't worry if you don't fit every tiny symptom on the list of possible ones -or if you have some symptoms unaccounted for. It won't fit perfectly , most likely, because you have a complicated situation. You have NVLD and ASD or autistic tendencies ect in addition to all this. A lot of people have complicated situations. See the thread How many things have you been diagnosed with in your life? I've got my collection.

Yikes, this is a long thread. Forgive me because I didn't read it all thoroughly. The best thing to do would be to take your concerns to another medical professional who can refer you to the next steps.

But I'm not sure what you'd like to get out of being undiagnosed. Maybe make that clear to the psychologist or whoever so they can help you get the right treatment.

What I'd like to get: AS causes them to explain everything in terms of AS while I don't believe that's the case. It gets in the way of getting help for my real issues. I got stuck in a "social skills" training program through a government-funded program in my state that ended up not being helpful at all. The instructors even asked why I was there.

My social problems run deeper and more under the surface. The more people get to know me, the less they like me. People with AS have trouble with first impressions. I have trouble maintaining good first impressions. Many people who know me say I'm completely hollow and have no consistent personality. People with AS struggle with affective empathy but not cognitive empathy. I am the opposite. That alone should be a tipoff. I don't follow rules, and I have a horrific attention to detail.

Tonight, a young woman who has two brothers with Asperger's straight up told me I don't have it. She is the first in a long line of others who have said the same thing, including my immediate family members.

I have NLD. These can create some superficial AS traits, such as obsessive interests, motor issues, and voice issues. But these alone are not sufficient for a diagnosis of Asperger's. I have made it a point to meet and talk to many people with AS, and I think completely differently than they do. After I made my first post suspecting BPD, I did chat for a several 4-hour blocks with a WP member and thought we had a lot in common. But she herself ended up getting undiagnosed AS and re-diagnosed with bipolar.

As a whole, these things do not indicate AS. They indicate something else, and as long as I have the AS diagnosis hanging over me, I can't get appropriate help because it causes incorrect assumptions to be made about me.

As for empathy, I never feel the correct feeling. But I imitate the behaviors of others to mimic the correct empathetic response. But when I have to be in a romantic relationship, this ability usually disappears after about two months.

See 2 weeks in, they could be upset, and I act like I care a lot and say all the right things. Two months in, they could be upset, I could know they're upset, I don't care, and I have lost my will and ability to act like I care.

I do have memories of feeling genuine affective empathy sometimes. But it's hard to imagine now. I've also been loading up on serotonin recently to help me focus on my studies, rather than my depression, so these (5htp, tryptophan, and st john's wort) could be related to killing my affective empathy.

This is more like the empathy pattern in borderline, bipolar, NPD, and antisocial PD rather than AS. The serotonin-induced ocillations related to empathy and self-esteem could indicate bipolar or NPD and possibly BPD as well.

I have asperger and OCD and ADHD.

Most likely.

You don't have to apologize for me not fully understanding you. I tried telling you - those were not just empty compliments. It must be hard being so different that half the people you speak to can't even see it as they can't comprehend. I'm reminded of this clip in a way
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qikjljlbTQw[/youtube]
You do realize that partially what I was doing in earlier posts was translating you because I think you make really valid points?
So no, I don't pick up on all subtleties. I pick up some, but I chose not to do anything as my skills in that are not that great. And my mood-swings get in the way of communication a lot. Then again, some disagreements do not come from lack of understanding, they come from different views.
My goal is complete acceptance for differences, while still dealing with the so common human faults we all have. Much is a combination of nature AND nurture - that discussion was solved a long time ago.
I knew that I probably wouldn't be able to change your mind, but I wanted to clarify my point anyway - and still do. I'm being stubborn now, so please bear with me. I'm not saying that there is no work to be done to change someone with these conditions, or that there can't be work done, because as you said there is something wrong with most of us so it is needed. Just that there are several ways of being healthy and functioning, not just striving to become something completely different - normal, aka neurotypical/NT. I'm saying that psychological literature has confused effects/consequences with inborn qualities. For example, sociophobia is not a natural part of Asperger's. It is an effect from being met with little understanding from the majority that were born with a different brain. Help is needed there. Being rude/impolite is not a natural part of autism. It is a consequence from having different circuits processing socializing and a brain that is not made for cultural assimilation - NTs are not born polite, but they learn much faster in that area. Also probably preferring direct communication instead of subtle. I feel an enormous amount of shame for the ways I did not realize I were impolite due to my autism in my past, and that it actually hurt peoples feelings. I had to have it explained trough books what purpose it had in social interaction, and how to perform it. With that understanding, and with greater understanding of peoples motives in general, came empathy. And I accept why I was as I were, and am. I make a very real effort now to be nice (I'm not counting being angry at racists/sexists/whatever-ists as it is for a greater purpose as they are unknowingly hurting more other people than me yelling at them hurts them, and I can't stand it. The only thing that would change there are the ways/amount/anger-issues) I've seen some here claim they "put on a show" to be polite and that they dislike it, but that is either because they have not realized that not being polite can hurt people needlessly so there is nothing possible to dislike about it, or the shame is too great to process so they reject it. Also that it is unfair to be expected to do things that are harder for us than it is for NTs in a very real neurological way, something everyone should be aware of.
I'm not claiming that DNA is destiny - just look at James Fallon, he has the neurology of a psychopath and is (as far as I know) a healthy functional human being, even a successful neuroscientist, both because he is intelligent enough to compensate for less brain-function in some areas (not that less functional psychopaths aren't intelligent, but in different ways) and because he didn't have the environmental triggers that could make someone less functional.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8RxRn6dWU[/youtube]


So this is concerning the topic of this thread:
An interesting thing about some people that only have - or think they only have - Asperger's syndrome, is that I've rarely seen more ableist people. It is so ironic, but I think I understand how that happened. As they are mostly just a little different - maybe not even autistic as Asperger's have been split into autism and "social communication disorder" in DSM V - but still get the same stigma as the other diagnoses (and they have grown up believing it too) - they are angry, so not knowing how to direct it towards something useful like activism, they put it on those even more disenfranchised than them - the autistics with co-morbids, or anyone having other disorders, as a way of feeling better. They also think that if they can even communicate with other people, that they deserve a cookie, and that anyone communicating better than them can't be autistic because of course they are the king of that. I recognize my own small efforts as something that almost anyone on the spectrum would be able to do. Ignorant people makes me ashamed of being autistic, and wary of ever telling anyone new again.
The world could use more awareness, empathy and acceptance.

"It must be hard being so different that half the people you speak to can't even see it as they can't comprehend."

I broke down and cried when I read this and am still kind of shaken to the core.. Anyway it's probably never exactly like anyone thinks about anyone else, including what you think about me and visa versa.. Everyone knows I"m different as they can sort of sense it, and I'm very social and now know how to fit in in a way that is pleasurable on both ends, and that was hard to learn, but in my case no one knows HOW different. It is like spending ones whole life cut off from everyone and being in an entirely different world while at the same time being able to interact and even have (formerly on occasion sometimes pleasant) but now very pleasant interactions. But there is always this alone feeling, and for all I know other people also feel this way. I have two grown daughters who live in the same area and we talk on the phone everyday, but I have to always tailor what I say so that they will understand, like constantly making a giant filter. Also there are two or three people who understand me on the internet, and I am a musician for fun and used to be really into jamming and sometimes other musicians understand me, but only in that context. Still none of this explains.

Anyway, the solution is to probably to find a common ground in ethics.

Re my communication style, that was developed. People CAN understand it if they want to focus and put effort into it---it just takes a little work. Everything cannot be too easy or it just becomes more mechanical and further degrades. What you asked me in the last message, yes I have had a lot of training, meaning mind training.

I did not watch the videos as there is no sound on this computer so may do it later. I am not into watching videos on the internet in particular...would rather people try to find their own words, but did look them over and I think you somehow in your message you did manage to get your point across about neurology, which is amazing that you did. That is who a person IS. I get it, which is why I cried.

Very poignant.

So if there is a way to consciously connect context to who one is in such a way that makes sense, that is freedom, self acceptance, intelligence, everything......

.

I don't think getting undiagnosed is necessary. It could be mild to the point where diagnosable symptoms were only present at a young age. If you have NVLD there is some overlap with PDD so it isn't entirely unwarranted. You just need to find someone that isn't cluelessly obsessed with using AS/PDD-NOS to explain everything. I think parents bias towards explaining everything in terms "social skills" because it makes them feel better to assume all social problems their kid has can be innocently explained as a simple misunderstanding that can be "learned" away. Even for me, though I'm pretty sure I do have a mild case of AS, the whole idea that I just need to "learn better social skills" is a bit simplistic in terms of describing what my actual problem seems to be. Sometimes it seems like I can understand the reason for small talk and such and I can almost feel it the same way an NT would in the act, but at the same time I have to admit that sometimes I really just don't try very hard because I have no interest and there's only so long I can hide the fact that I'm bored with someone's company and would rather focus on my own thoughts.


The description of being inconsistent and hollow I'm sure has nothing to do with AS.



I didn't know you had an official AS diagnosis. I thought it was just PDD-NOS. Anyways, I agree you need to find someone who doesn't try to pin all your problems on an autism spectrum disorder. Even if you do have an extremely mild case of something you should probably focus elsewhere.

How many AS people do you know who would impulsively move to a third-world country without speaking the language or knowing anyone there and end up getting a job there and staying for almost two years?

I am assuming you want to solve your social/psychological problems no matter what the cause because then things would be bette for you.. Is this correct? The problem with labels is that labeling can be used as a form of escape from facing reality. I know all about this from personal experience, as do many here, I am sure. .Framing is a little different. The right kind of framework can function as a doorway into a world where things have the possibility of becoming more ordered in a way which is generative.

This does NOT imply giving up naming. That is also a facet, but there is a way to consciously use it. For instance if I see directly that I have a problem, completely see i without separating 'myself' from the problem., that is different from thinking to myself that I have a problem because my brain is a certain way. Even though this way is part of the causal chain, maybe the way I am behaving (and thinking about it) is reinforcing the way my brain is,so a feedback loop, one of the unconscious motives of which is to not solve the problem. So naming is still there, but it functions in concordance with direct seeing, not an avoidance of it.

Re the therapist you have now, she may just not be a good therapist, but there are other explanations for her diagnosis. By the way, did she send you here or did you find this site yourself?

I found this site myself when I was searching for "good careers for aspies" after I got diagnosed. It led me to one of the threads in the work and jobs threads in accounting.

The problem with not having labels is I don't think I'm self-aware enough to determine the root of the problem without a framework. Asperger's just doesn't cut it when it comes to most of my social problems.

Furthermore, I am moving soon, so it would be nice to have a label to give a therapist in my future location, so we don't have to start from scratch, or he/she doesn't make incorrect assumptions about me.

Questions: Did this therapist help you? If so, how? If not, or not so much, why do you think you would fare better with someone else? (It could be worse:-).

What you said about labels and framework is interesting. In short, a label is a name of one thing or a combination of things, whereas a framework is an arrangement of things in a certain way that one can act from 'inside of,' such as perhaps an ethical framework. Anyway, these names such as BPD or whatever describe certain kinds of behavior, but are not the same as a framework, and imo most of the disorders you have mentioned it probably doesn't take long to diagnosis, except someone could easily miss DID.

Last edited by littlebee on 10 Apr 2013, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think these labels are frameworks: a way to make sense of otherwise confusing symptoms. I want to know why I do and think certain things of which I may have a vague understanding or memory.

Example: why is it that, with one exception, the longer I'm in a place or around a person, the more I get tired of the place or person. In the case of the place, I hate it. I really hate Austin now. I don't know why I always hate my surroundings after a time. I'm discontent with everything, and nothing is ever enough. This goes for girlfriends and sex also.

I have no idea why I get tired of people, routines, and places.

I gotta go to work, but the seeking of variety and the taking of what is called a "geographical,", meaning moving from p[lace to place is a common form of escape. I can say more later, but I suspect that some kinds of )perceived) tedium can hook into ones suppressed emotional pain, and this also could be used to explain ADD. Interesting how some of these folks can focus very well when it is something they are interested in. Moving and traveling can create a kind of unification experience that can be very addicting especially to an addict. I tell many young people not to get addicted to travel.

Anyway, you don't need a therapist to explain this to you.