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28% of murderers thought to have suffered from ASD

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Adamantium
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25 May 2014, 7:17 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
That's not an assumption, that's a factual statistic. Also, I should point out that my statistic was about spree killers, and not serial killers.

Some more detail. link
That's why I used the label "spree killers" in the post you quoted.


You implied that being white meant someone was more likely to be a spree killer.

Verdandi wrote:
Also, he's part of that 70% of spree killers who are white dudes, but no one will be talking about his whiteness or his dudeness.


Why should anyone be "talking about his whiteness"?

Your article states: "According to Wikipedia, 75% of the rampage killings on US record were perpetrated by white males, as were 71% of massacres in schools, and 60% of workplace rampages"

However, one would expect most spree killers in the USA to be white people, because the population of the USA in 2010 was 72.4% white. (The wikipedia reference was presumably citing data from around that time).


I think the point is that the way statistics were flagrantly misused in the crap University of Glasgow paper that was the basis for the crap reporting in the Daily Mail was akin to incorrectly inferring something about probability to commit spree killings or propensity to commit spree killings based on the true stat about the race of spree killers.

Your objection to the implication is correct and also applies to the deeply flawed logic in Clare Allely's rubbish paper.

What cannot be denied is that the data cited in the paper does not support the incredibly weak conclusion (which amounts to a pitch for more funding for research) the paper draws. The authors cite studies that show the propensity to commit crimes is NOT higher in autistics than in the general population. They try feebly to deal with the fact that good data from existing research contradicts the supposition that their own data doesn't support by saying "if we did a lot more study we might find something to support the idea that some people with ASD in some circumstances might commit mass murder."

How Clare Allely and her co authors can produce this level of work and not be up for disciplinary hearings at the University of Glasgow is beyond me. There should be some accountability for the misuse of public funds this so-called study represents.

I wonder if Christopher Gillberg allowed his name to be attached to this because of a personal relationship with Allely. It's hard to imagine that he read this crap and thought "that's really good! I want my name on that!"



Last edited by Adamantium on 25 May 2014, 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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25 May 2014, 8:19 am

Yeah, statistically LoveNotHate is correct. I had mistakenly counted women and so it looked like white men were severely overrepresented (from like 36% of the population to 70% of the spree killers) when, since women are basically not represented at all they shouldn't be counted in comparison to the demographics.

And seriously, I would much rather see investigations as to why men (not specifically white) are the ones who go on sprees than searching for maybe there maybe not autism that is most likely to be observed post-mortem based on non-clinical observation via newspaper articles, news broadcasts, and courtroom transcripts.



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25 May 2014, 1:49 pm

annnnnd here's another one:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Family+ ... story.html

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQUW3Km01BM&bpctr=1401045153[/youtube]


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Shadi2
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25 May 2014, 4:19 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
annnnnd here's another one:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Family+ ... story.html

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQUW3Km01BM&bpctr=1401045153[/youtube]


Very narcissistic. And sociopath.


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25 May 2014, 4:31 pm

Man am I glad of my choice to stay "in the closet".



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25 May 2014, 4:34 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Why should anyone be "talking about his whiteness"?

Your article states: "According to Wikipedia, 75% of the rampage killings on US record were perpetrated by white males, as were 71% of massacres in schools, and 60% of workplace rampages"

However, one would expect most spree killers in the USA to be white people, because the population of the USA in 2010 was 72.4% white. (The wikipedia reference was presumably citing data from around that time).


And yet only about 35% of the population are white males - meaning they are disproportionately represented among rampage killers.



ryanosoris
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25 May 2014, 5:02 pm

i think this illustrates the effect abuse has on people with ASDs. humanity must be made aware of the long term suffering people with some neurological conditions can develop as a result of being systematically abused, physically and mentally.

social darwinism is simply not ethical, nor does it provide the most desired effect. it merely eliminates those who are deemed to be 'undesirable' to the majority. thankfully, we are coming to better understand the benefits society can gain from being neuro-diverse, and my hope is this leads to greater appreciation of those who seem 'odd' or 'eccentric' rather then how it seems now, where people attempt to bully/threaten them into submission and conformity (or suicide).

people with 'mental illness' are often more likely to be the victims of violence and crime than perpetrators of it. the problem being, victims of violence are more likely to commit violence themselves.

this means all people who are abused, physically or mentally, are at a higher rate to be abusive, aspergers or otherwise.

i believe what creates the current correlation between violence and aspergers is people with ASDs are more likely to be bullied than those without, thus increasing the likelihood of violence and abuse, thus increasing the likelihood of the victim with aspergers be violent themselves.

in this way, i believe people with aspergers are more likely to commit violence. but this isn't because violence is written in aspie dna. to me, it appears to be more caused by how society at large views and treats people with ASDs.

but this is merely a guess, as it would be impossible to prove a causal relationship between the two. i hope as the number of aspies being bullied declines, the number of aspies who commit violence also reduces.

(my first post here, please be gentle. pm me for citation requests, as i have not met the required 5 minimum posts to link them here.)



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25 May 2014, 5:14 pm

Nonperson wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Why should anyone be "talking about his whiteness"?

Your article states: "According to Wikipedia, 75% of the rampage killings on US record were perpetrated by white males, as were 71% of massacres in schools, and 60% of workplace rampages"

However, one would expect most spree killers in the USA to be white people, because the population of the USA in 2010 was 72.4% white. (The wikipedia reference was presumably citing data from around that time).


And yet only about 35% of the population are white males - meaning they are disproportionately represented among rampage killers.


Spree killing is almost entirely done by males, so yes, males are disproportionately represented. However, "white males" are not disproportionately represented.

Given that 72.4% of the population is white in 2010, then we would expect 72.4% of the spree killers to be white males (i.e., proportional to the white race).

Likewise, in 2010, 12.33% of the population was black, so we would expect 12.33% of spree killers to be "black males" (i.e., proportional to the black race).

Race is not a factor, gender is.


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Last edited by LoveNotHate on 25 May 2014, 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Shadi2
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25 May 2014, 5:31 pm

ryanosoris wrote:
i think this illustrates the effect abuse has on people with ASDs. humanity must be made aware of the long term suffering people with some neurological conditions can develop as a result of being systematically abused, physically and mentally.

social darwinism is simply not ethical, nor does it provide the most desired effect. it merely eliminates those who are deemed to be 'undesirable' to the majority. thankfully, we are coming to better understand the benefits society can gain from being neuro-diverse, and my hope is this leads to greater appreciation of those who seem 'odd' or 'eccentric' rather then how it seems now, where people attempt to bully/threaten them into submission and conformity (or suicide).

people with 'mental illness' are often more likely to be the victims of violence and crime than perpetrators of it. the problem being, victims of violence are more likely to commit violence themselves.

this means all people who are abused, physically or mentally, are at a higher rate to be abusive, aspergers or otherwise.

i believe what creates the current correlation between violence and aspergers is people with ASDs are more likely to be bullied than those without, thus increasing the likelihood of violence and abuse, thus increasing the likelihood of the victim with aspergers be violent themselves.

in this way, i believe people with aspergers are more likely to commit violence. but this isn't because violence is written in aspie dna. to me, it appears to be more caused by how society at large views and treats people with ASDs.

but this is merely a guess, as it would be impossible to prove a causal relationship between the two. i hope as the number of aspies being bullied declines, the number of aspies who commit violence also reduces.

(my first post here, please be gentle. pm me for citation requests, as i have not met the required 5 minimum posts to link them here.)


Have you watched his video? Its not Aspergers that caused this, the guy was very narcissistic ... and considering what he did he was probably sociopath too.


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daydreamer84
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25 May 2014, 7:52 pm

He could be both a narcissistic psychopath (or sociopath) and autistic, though. Definitely, there's more going on than just ASD. He might have been misdiagnosed but I see no evidence to suggest it. There are going to be killers who do in fact have ASD. Callista posted that study showing that there are roughly equal numbers of ASDers and NTs who commit crimes (except more aspie arsonists and fewer criminals with classic autism).

Either way, a lot of people are going to associate ASD with the image of that little creep on youtube who went on a killing spree because he couldn't get a girl, unfortunately.



Shadi2
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25 May 2014, 8:21 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:
He could be both a narcissistic psychopath (or sociopath) and autistic, though. Definitely, there's more going on than just ASD. He might have been misdiagnosed but I see no evidence to suggest it. There are going to be killers who do in fact have ASD. Callista posted that study showing that there are roughly equal numbers of ASDers and NTs who commit crimes (except more aspie arsonists and fewer criminals with classic autism).

Either way, a lot of people are going to associate ASD with the image of that little creep on youtube who went on a killing spree because he couldn't get a girl, unfortunately.


Yes I didn't mean he didn't have ASD, eventho it is possible that he was misdiagnosed. I meant I think he also had something else in addition to ASD (assuming it was not a misdiagnosis).


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Al725
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25 May 2014, 10:25 pm

This is disgusting. The ironic thing is that the author of this article got me so enraged that I started imaging all the things that I wouldn't mind happening to this @#$%...Like maby cancer of the mouth that requires removal of her toungue in cheek. That would be a fitting end to her and all other dip$#@% NT therapists who spread these horrible myths! :P



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25 May 2014, 10:30 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:
He could be both a narcissistic psychopath (or sociopath) and autistic, though. Definitely, there's more going on than just ASD. He might have been misdiagnosed but I see no evidence to suggest it. There are going to be killers who do in fact have ASD. Callista posted that study showing that there are roughly equal numbers of ASDers and NTs who commit crimes (except more aspie arsonists and fewer criminals with classic autism).

Either way, a lot of people are going to associate ASD with the image of that little creep on youtube who went on a killing spree because he couldn't get a girl, unfortunately.

the studies for criminals with classic autism will be skewed as most of us have some level of intelectual disability which makes us un arrestable for crime though we usualy get detained in intelectual disability acute hospitals [again,a UK experience].


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26 May 2014, 12:22 am

Some interesting points in this article:

http://www.naturalnews.com/045286_Ellio ... ciety.html

I'm not so sure I agree with it all 100%, as I've seen some of those same movies/shows and they haven't made me into a murderer. But I can see how media does play an influential role, especially on some people.


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26 May 2014, 1:03 am

Nonperson wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Why should anyone be "talking about his whiteness"?

Your article states: "According to Wikipedia, 75% of the rampage killings on US record were perpetrated by white males, as were 71% of massacres in schools, and 60% of workplace rampages"

However, one would expect most spree killers in the USA to be white people, because the population of the USA in 2010 was 72.4% white. (The wikipedia reference was presumably citing data from around that time).


And yet only about 35% of the population are white males - meaning they are disproportionately represented among rampage killers.


this is the same thing that bit me. If it weren't for the fact that the vast majority of spree killers are men, this particular counter would be pretty relevant.



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26 May 2014, 1:05 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Nonperson wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Why should anyone be "talking about his whiteness"?

Your article states: "According to Wikipedia, 75% of the rampage killings on US record were perpetrated by white males, as were 71% of massacres in schools, and 60% of workplace rampages"

However, one would expect most spree killers in the USA to be white people, because the population of the USA in 2010 was 72.4% white. (The wikipedia reference was presumably citing data from around that time).


And yet only about 35% of the population are white males - meaning they are disproportionately represented among rampage killers.


Spree killing is almost entirely done by males, so yes, males are disproportionately represented. However, "white males" are not disproportionately represented.

Given that 72.4% of the population is white in 2010, then we would expect 72.4% of the spree killers to be white males (i.e., proportional to the white race).

Likewise, in 2010, 12.33% of the population was black, so we would expect 12.33% of spree killers to be "black males" (i.e., proportional to the black race).

Race is not a factor, gender is.


Yes. This.

I researched and black men are also proportionately represented. Other racial groups are likely also proportionately represented.