Post-assessment thoughts (finally got the result today).

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skibum
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30 Sep 2014, 4:22 pm

Sweet dreams dear. Have a very restful night. Tomorrow is a new day and we will be here for you.


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30 Sep 2014, 5:01 pm

VIQ means Verbal IQ and PIQ means Performance IQ.
About the WAIS:

Quote:
Verbal Scales

1. Information: 28 items on a variety of information adults have presumably had opportunities to acquire in our culture. No specialized or academic information included; however, some of the items cover quite sophisticated information.

2. Comprehension: 18 items that require examinee to explain what should be done in certain circumstances, the meaning of proverbs, why certain societal practices are followed, and so forth. The test measures practical judgement, common sense, and the ability to understand and adapt to social customs. Score on each item varies (0-2 pts) according to the degree to which the response describes the most pertinent aspects of the question.

3. Arithmetic: 20 arithmetic problems similar to those encountered in elementary math courses. Problems are administered orally and must be solved without paper and pencil. In addition to math knowledge, test measures concentration and systematic problem-solving ability.

4. Similarities: 19 items requiring examinee to describe how two given things are alike. Score on each item varies according to the degree to which the response describes a general property primarily pertinent to both items in the pair. Measures concrete, functional, and abstract concept formation.

5. Digit Span: Two parts, Digits forward and digits backwards. Examinee required to repeat 3 - 9 digits forward and 2 - 9 digits backwards. Measures short-term memory, attention, and concentration..

6. Vocabulary: 66 words of increasing difficulty are presented orally and visually. Examinee required to define the words. Score (0-2) based on sophistication of definition. Measures verbal knowledge and concept formation.

7. Letter-Number Sequencing (Optional Test): Examiner presents combinations of letters and numbers, from 2 to nine letter-number combinations. Examinee must repeat each series by, first, repeating the numbers in ascending order, then the letters in alphabetical order (e.g., 9-L-2-A; correct response is 2-9-A-L). Measures "working memory," the ability to simultaneously recall and organize stimuli of different, similar types. This also is a standard test on the Wechsler Memory Scale-III.

Performance Scales

8. Coding-Digit Symbol: Numbers 1 - 7 are paired with symbols on a key presented to examinee. Examinee has 120 seconds to go through a grid of 90 numbers and place the correct symbol above each number. Measures visual-motor speed and complexity, motor coordination. There are two additional, optional extensions of the coding test that measure the examinees skills in learning the coding process after completing the initial task.


9. Picture Completion: 25 cards, each containing a picture having a part missing. Examinee must identify the missing part. Measures ability to observe details and recognize specific features of the environment (I.e., whole to part discrimination). Also measures performance in deliberately focusing attention.

10. Block Design: Perhaps the butt of more jokes than any other WAIS scale! Included in the test are nine red and white square blocks and a spiral booklet of cards showing different color designs that can be made with the blocks. The examinee must arrange the blocks to match the design formed by examiner or shown on cards. In addition to being scored for accuracy, each item is scored for speed as well. Measures spatial problem-solving and manipulative abilities, and part to whole organization.

11. Picture Arrangement: Eleven items. Each item consists of 3 to 6 cards containing pictures. The examinee must arrange the pictures from left to right to tell the intended story. Again, both accuracy and speed are scored. Partial credit is given for alternate, but less commonly given arrangements to some items.
Measures nonverbal reasoning and sequencing skills, and grasp of social cause and effect (also known as social intelligence).

12. Matrix Reasoning: A new test on the WAIS-III. Examinee is presented with a series of design with a part missing. Examinee chooses the missing part that will complete the design, from five choices. Measures nonverbal analytical reasoning.

13. Object Assembly (Optional Test): Four items, each item being a "cut up" object, like a puzzle. Examinee must correctly assemble the parts of the puzzle. Measures visual-motor problem-solving and organizational abilities, and visual anticipation skills.

14. Symbol Search (Optional test): Examinee must match one or two symbols shown on the left column with the same symbol/s in the right column of each page in the supplemental test booklet. Measures organization accuracy and processing speed

http://www.iupui.edu/~flip/wechsler.html


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30 Sep 2014, 5:01 pm

Have a good night, Rebbieh!


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30 Sep 2014, 5:30 pm

rebbieh wrote:
Anyway, the psychologist told me my IQ profile is quite scattered. She also told me she thinks I could do better and that the scores maybe don't really reflect my "true score" since I sort of shut down during some tests etc, and that that's probably what it's like for me "in real life" as well. I don't know. I asked her if we'll be going through the tests more in depth and she said we'll try to do that next time we meet up (in two weeks).


Mine is also scattered, I have much higher PIQ than VIQ and Dyscalculia (cannot do math at all, as there is no translation into visual images for me).
I also got a lot distracted taking IQ test, because there were noises like people running through the hallway and stuff.
I also had a problem with one subtest Coding-Digit Symbols, because they gave me a pen and it did not feel right in my hand, it felt too small and pointy and I got distracted close to a meltdown.
But this test was time-monitored.


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30 Sep 2014, 6:07 pm

skibum wrote:
If you can begin to see yourself as if you were someone else this will help a lot. I do that to myself sometimes when I am struggling in similar ways. I talk to myself as if I were to talking to another person

In autism often Theory of Mind is impaired and it is hard to imgine yourself being another person.
I cannot do it, got assessed with severe impairment in Theory of Mind.
Which does not mean that I like people suffering.
But I cannot imagine being someone else.


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30 Sep 2014, 7:20 pm

Jensen wrote:
It is how you function, that matters, and you will begin to see that clearer as time goes, you can´t know now. You have only been you. It takes a while to discover the difference.
I suppose, you have read Tony Attwood? The Complete Guide to Aspergers syndrome.
He´s done a lot on youtube as well.
Tania Marshall is working on a list of female aspie traits.
Find them on the net.


As you may remember, I was quite old before I knew anything about Asperger's. I do remember some things, though. After I was diagnosed, my Psychologist invited my daughter and me to a two-day "Webinar" out of KU, at Parsons State Hospital, with Tony Attwood, Temple Grandin, and a couple of lesser luminaries, but still experts in the field. Dr Attwood was very funny -- not making fun of us, but light-hearted. At one point, he demonstrated "The Aspie Walk", and not only demonstrated it, but described it so well that I flashed back to forty or so years earlier, when my husband-to-be happened to catch sight of me in town from across the square, and noticed what was different (and attractive to him: he _liked_ unusual or unique phenomena) about my walk and posture. I remembered that, because it was unusual for me to hear someone say that something about me was attractive. My roommate and friend (yes, really) had a different view of it: she was trying to help me be more feminine and attractive to boys, and put up a poster on the wall: "Clank, clank, clank; Clank, clank, clank; Do not walk like a Sherman Tank." She also made me walk across the room, repeatedly, balancing a book on my head (an ancient technique to develop grace.) I was told by another boy that I danced "mechanically". I knew that I didn't dance _well_, and tried to avoid it. I hope that that Walk and posture routine of Dr. Attwood is one of the things on YouTube (I don't have the bandwidth to do videos). It's quite enlightening. My roommate was also correct, if not really tactful about it: attractive, feminine girls don't walk like that. (I'm just glad that Tom thought differently).


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30 Sep 2014, 7:45 pm

rebbieh wrote:
Well, I do care about intelligence quotients and accomplishments (and a lot of people on this forum seem to do too) and, to me, I'm obviously not good at anything. I don't know why people have lied to me my whole life and told me I'm smart (even the psychologist told me I am several times today) if I'm not. I'm in the average/higher average range (not sure of my exact score yet but the psychologist said it was in the higher part of average and I think I saw the number 113 somewhere). That's not good enough.

Please know that I do not hold other people to the same standards as I hold myself. If you told me you have an IQ of 113 I'd probably say that's good, because it sort of is. But not for me. I know that's ridiculous and stupid and that I'm a hypocrite but I have this really skewed and distorted way of looking at myself. I must be perfect or I see no point in living.


rebbieh, you're okay, and you're smart. You write well, and that's smart. When I was in my teens I tested very high in IQ: I was good at test-taking. While it was unofficial, because he was just learning to administer the test, when I was about your age my husband used me for a guinea pig when he was in a Psychological Testing class in college, and I took the WAIS from him. He said that I knocked the top out of it: too high to score. In my teens, with the Stanford-Benet, I approached 160. And I don't know what good it's ever done me: I can do such dumb things that you wouldn't believe! And they aren't even much of a predictor of good grades, at least at the college level where most people are too easily distracted by the opposite sex. 8O IQ tests are a crock, and the same person can score quite differently on different days when they're in a different frame of mind: being relaxed while taking them is good, for one thing, but they have to be different tests, because after you've taken a particular one, you know what to expect and remember the questions the second time.


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30 Sep 2014, 7:56 pm

Eloa wrote:
skibum wrote:
If you can begin to see yourself as if you were someone else this will help a lot. I do that to myself sometimes when I am struggling in similar ways. I talk to myself as if I were to talking to another person

In autism often Theory of Mind is impaired and it is hard to imgine yourself being another person.
I cannot do it, got assessed with severe impairment in Theory of Mind.
Which does not mean that I like people suffering.
But I cannot imagine being someone else.
I have a hard time understanding what ToM actually means. It's very interesting because I think I have poor ToM in one area but strong ToM in another if I understand it correctly. I can analyze myself very well as if I were looking at myself from outside of myself and I can coach myself as if I were coaching a ski or swim student. I can also talk to myself and sometimes console the younger parts of myself as if I were someone else doing it. But I am often told that I don't understand what other people are thinking. I get told this a lot so I think that if that is also ToM I am pretty poor at that. I also get told that I don't always relate to what others are feeling. I can relate if it's really big and obvious but more subtle or complex things I have a much harder time with. So I don't know if those are both ToM things or not.


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30 Sep 2014, 8:32 pm

My IQ on a non-language test is low average. It is higher than my earlier verbal fullscale score.


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01 Oct 2014, 12:30 am

Spectacles wrote:
Interesting, I wonder if that will be the case (still waiting). As of yet, I don't have much confidence in the system itself. It seems that the prevalence of those who are qualified to make an accurate diagnosis in the mental health system in the States is very small compared to how many actually make diagnoses. Until the eye tracking technology or brain scans (or some other yet known to us physical diagnosis) become more common place, it's gonna be hard not to be skeptical. I know I fit enough criteria to warrant a diagnosis, so for all practical purposes, I assume the diagnosis, though I still wonder if my oddities could be better explained via a conglomeration of other factors.


Well, I didn't have the passion about it to self-diagnose with any confidence, although my (unqualified) daughter laid a good guess on it after hearing the symptoms in a class. I was going to a local Mental Health Center to get antidepressants (which worked well) for my Clinical Depression, and she agitated there (having at one time worked as a receptionist there, thus knowing personally all the clinical staff) to get me diagnosed, but they simply had no one qualified to TRY to diagnose an adult (much harder, after a lifetime of learning to (unconsciously: just a matter of learned behavior) to mask symptoms and amend social behavior. It wasn't until my friend the PhD writing her paper came along, at the State Children's Hospital where her "day job" was working with severely affected child Autistics, that I got a qualified diagnosis that I could afford (free, for the sake of the paper she was writing). Basically, I wasn't all that worried -- if that was where my quirks and tendencies came from, that was fine with me. I wasn't stressing over it. It wasn't until _after_ she'd diagnosed me that it became a Special Interest type of "obsession", and even that was more of an abstract interest, like the years that I was into fine needlework, and the "personal" part of it only came in by the nature of analyzing my own memories of the child and woman that I once was, and the many misunderstandings of other people over the years.

The brain research that has come up showing too few (compared to NTs) connections between amygdala and forebrain is really fascinating. I don't have the competence to do that sort of study, but I wonder whether there's any way to determine just _which_ connections are missing -- if we could trace those, it might tell us about the difference between Aspies and Auties (I'm quite certain that there is one, and also quite certain that there's a relationship) and things like the reasons that some of us in both groups have various sets of characteristics present or not present. I'm pretty sure that recent research has shown that work and practice (e.g., in music) can actually alter brain physiology, so some of those missing connections might be grown well after they should have appeared, by "exercise", if we knew just how to exercise to get them. But I'm WAY too old to learn how to become an MRI or Cat Scan technician, with the attendant study of brain physiology. I'm doing well to have an idea what the people who can do that are talking about!


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01 Oct 2014, 1:11 am

Eloa, thanks for explaining. I have no idea whether my VIQ is higher than my PIQ or vice versa. I'll have to wait another couple of weeks before I get the rest of the WAIS results.

Sibyl, I was certainly not relaxed when I took the test. Quite the opposite actually. I was so anxious I shut down during a certain verbal test when I took WAIS. I'm not smart. I feel like I have proof of that now. (Again, these high standards are standards I hold myself to. Not other people. People with an IQ of 113 are certainly not stupid. I am though. I know how ridiculous that sounds but I see it as truth.)

Jensen, I'm already depressed and I've been depressed for about a decade. Perhaps how I did on WAIS isn't "worth a depression" but my already existing depression latches onto all of this and sucks the life out of everything.

Rocket123, I'm going to ask the psychologist to tell me what I'm supposedly "good" at because I certainly don't see it.

-----

I don't want to deal with this day. Have to go to university in less than an hour. I don't want to. I don't want to be around people (I suspect my tolerance for sounds etc. is going to be very low today), I don't want to speak to people, I don't want to be forced to participate in stupid seminar discussions, I don't want to have to listen to a three hour long lecture only to realize I haven't really been able to focus and then become even more anxious because of that, I don't want to study for the test on Friday, I don't want to cook, I don't even want to be awake. When I think about my life right now I almost feel nauseous and I don't understand how people can deal with all this stress.



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01 Oct 2014, 3:24 am

skibum wrote:
Eloa wrote:
skibum wrote:
If you can begin to see yourself as if you were someone else this will help a lot. I do that to myself sometimes when I am struggling in similar ways. I talk to myself as if I were to talking to another person

In autism often Theory of Mind is impaired and it is hard to imgine yourself being another person.
I cannot do it, got assessed with severe impairment in Theory of Mind.
Which does not mean that I like people suffering.
But I cannot imagine being someone else.
I have a hard time understanding what ToM actually means. It's very interesting because I think I have poor ToM in one area but strong ToM in another if I understand it correctly. I can analyze myself very well as if I were looking at myself from outside of myself and I can coach myself as if I were coaching a ski or swim student. I can also talk to myself and sometimes console the younger parts of myself as if I were someone else doing it. But I am often told that I don't understand what other people are thinking. I get told this a lot so I think that if that is also ToM I am pretty poor at that. I also get told that I don't always relate to what others are feeling. I can relate if it's really big and obvious but more subtle or complex things I have a much harder time with. So I don't know if those are both ToM things or not.


Quote from The Way I See It by Temple Grandin:

Quote:
Theory of Mind is the ability to understand what other people may be thinking. In it's most elementary form, it's the ability to understand that different people have different thoughts. Involved with TOM is perspective taking, being able to think about and understand an event or situation "through the eyes of another." These are all social thinking skills that develop without formal instruction in neurotypical individuals, starting at a very early age. These are also skills that most people, including educators, assume exsist in all people, to a greater or lesser degree of development. This is not the case within the autism population.


I cannot tell if all what you listed is TOM-related, though Wikipedia explains TOM as:

Quote:
Theory of mind (often abbreviated ToM) is the ability to attribute mental states ? beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc. ? to oneself and others and to understand that others have beliefs, desires, and intentions that are different from one's own.


Maybe first one must have the ability to attribute mental states to oneself before one can do it in regard to another person. But I don't know.


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01 Oct 2014, 4:51 am

Quote:
Maybe first one must have the ability to attribute mental states to oneself before one can do it in regard to another person. But I don't know.

That´s how it works.
The difference is, that it comes intuitively in NT´s, whereas people with autism has to learn by experience, thought and concious comparison.

Aspies are said to be very self centered, exessively interested in self,- but we probably have to in order to develop socially, - because we often have to learn by intellect, what comes intuitively to others.


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01 Oct 2014, 5:05 am

Jensen wrote:
Quote:
Maybe first one must have the ability to attribute mental states to oneself before one can do it in regard to another person. But I don't know.

That´s how it works.
The difference is, that it comes intuitively in NT´s, whereas people with autism has to learn by experience, thought and concious comparison.

Aspies are said to be very self centered, exessively interested in self,- but we probably have to in order to develop socially, - because we often have to learn by intellect, what comes intuitively to others.


Age 17 I developed a strong special interest and in order to pursuit it I had to attend a special school for it (but I got dismissed after two years).
The other students were not permanently talking about this special interest, they came late to class and did not obsess about it.
I thought that they had no interest in it because I did not know that I was obsessed with it, I thought that the way I felt about it is normal to feel about it and so I thought that if someone is not obsessed with it the person has no interest in it and wondered that if the other student are not interested in it, why they attended this special school, it did not make sense to me.
It is in therapy that I learned that non autistic people can like things without being obsessed with it.


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01 Oct 2014, 9:21 am

Jensen wrote:
Quote:
Maybe first one must have the ability to attribute mental states to oneself before one can do it in regard to another person. But I don't know.

That´s how it works.
The difference is, that it comes intuitively in NT´s, whereas people with autism has to learn by experience, thought and concious comparison.

Aspies are said to be very self centered, exessively interested in self,- but we probably have to in order to develop socially, - because we often have to learn by intellect, what comes intuitively to others.
I read in Tony Attwood's book that Aspies can be remarkable at self analysis which is what I seem to be able to do. Maybe that is part of learning to develop some ToM skills by intellect.

But sometimes I do project my thinking on other people and wonder why they don't respond like I do. Sometimes I don't understand why they don't respond like I do and they have to explain it to me. But I think that I do have some ToM skills though and maybe more than the average stereotype of Aspie. I wonder if I developed that intellectually.


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01 Oct 2014, 2:33 pm

I think IQ tests are stupid, and I don't place important in someone's low score, average score, or high score.
How smart they are is shown by their idears and eggsecution of those idears, not their score on a stupid test with uninteresting, uncreative answers to uninteresting, uncreative questions.


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