Mother talks about killing her autistic daughter and herself

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ZanneMarie
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05 Mar 2007, 9:25 pm

Zeno wrote:
KimJ wrote:
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A child who has been diagnosed with autism, especially the Kanners type, would bring a sickening sense of horror to any parent.


That's what we are (mostly) complaining about! This is NOT representative of "any" parent but those parents. I did not feel a "sickening sense of horror" when my son was referred to the neurologist, dx'ed, or when he was assessed by the school district as severely autistic. That's the whole point!

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need not come to the point of wanting to murder a child, but the people who often do the most harm to autistics are their own parents, in particular their mothers


I'd like to see the source of this idea. A lot of people around here complain about 1)both parents treating them bad, 2)their dads being particularly rough with them and 3)their moms.


Some parents are martyrs who are willing to sacrifice everything for their autistic children but not everyone is like that. Autism does not only make a living dead out of autistics, it often does the same to the people who are around that autistic. It is only natural to be very angry if one's child is autistic, especially when they are only mildly so because the hopes for remedy is everywhere so abundant. But the hopes are false and no matter how vicious the methods, there are things that autistics will never be able to do.

Part of the way all parents teach their child is through a process of punishment and reward. For the mildly autistic child, their stubborn insistence on unfathomable routine or refusal to do the socially appropriate thing is often met instinctively with punishment. One might call it "tough love" - I punish you because I want you to learn and get better. But it never gets better and the punishments slowly escalate into abuse and confrontation. There is almost nothing that can be done about it because the parent is acting out of deeply ingrained instincts. It is the sort of behavior that they picked up from their parents and the type that gets validated when they observe how other parents treat misbehaving children. There is probably no doubt in the parent's mind that he/she is doing the right thing.

Children who are autistic are often unable to cope with such parental abuse. In general, autistics are vulnerable; but for many autistics, coping with a parent who is both an authority figure and yet a demon that imposes such misery is well nigh impossible. Talk to any Aspergian here, each of us harbor scars that are so deep, a betrayal so profound that it is even painful to even think about it. Parents are not supposed to do these things. Even if they do not help you, they are not supposed to hurt you.

People do not have to try to kill you to hurt you; there are many ways of unleashing one’s rage at the helpless. And that is what it is. Autistics, even the mild ones, are helpless in dealing with explosive social situations. Many parents will probably find some degree of compliance when they throw a tantrum at the cowering autistic child if only because they frighten the child into absolute submission. For many parents, such highhanded methods might appear to be the only thing that works. But it exacts a terrible price and for many people with autism, there is simply no refuge.

The source of the idea is me. I am the originator of this school of thought because no one in the professional or academic community will have the temerity to make this argument – they depend too much on goodwill and fees from desperate parents to want to jeopardize their position with something as inconvenient as the truth. It is also very difficult to systematically study this phenomenon as almost all of it occurs during the private moments between parent and child. If you interview both, it is my word against his/hers; there is no real basis to trust either party. But I hold that most Aspergians would agree with me; at the very least, it offers a partial explanation to why so many of us have such broken relationships with our families. Take a look at what this woman is doing in the wider context and the reactions that this video has engendered in the community, it is important.


Actually, all of this fine but it's still just words. The only thing that stops it is turning it in. If you want to turn a blind eye to it because you think no good will come of it, you are just as responsible as the mother. Every person who sees that and is silent is responsible. That is the bottom line.



Zeno
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05 Mar 2007, 9:39 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:
Actually, all of this fine but it's still just words. The only thing that stops it is turning it in. If you want to turn a blind eye to it because you think no good will come of it, you are just as responsible as the mother. Every person who sees that and is silent is responsible. That is the bottom line.


I did not say to do nothing, but there are issues that are far wider than just this one suicidal mother thinking of murdering her daughter. There is a pattern in the relationship between the autistic and the parent that needs to be understood. Go ahead and report this woman to Child Services like you did, I am hoping to use this opportunity to draw the community's attention to a problem that has previously been ignored - the abuse of autistic children.



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05 Mar 2007, 9:45 pm

I am currently writing a letter to Autism Speaks. I hope others here do as well.

What troubles me most about the film in general is the complete focus on the parents. It is not about how hard it must be for the child, its how hard it is for the parents. Of course it is hard on parents and I feel for them, but in the video the absolute selfishness disgusted me. Almost none of it said anything positive about the children. In maybe the last minut of the video they try to say a couple generic "positive" things, "my little boy teaches me more than I teach him" and that is it. The rest of the time the kids are a disease on the parents

The attention whore mom Allison Singers other daughter says "I wish I didn't have an Autistic sister". That to me was the second most shocking thing compared to her moms statement. This little girl was taught by her mom that her sister shouldn't exist. I imagine if this mom wasn't afraid to say she wanted to kill the autistic daughter to the world on the film, she probably didn't care if she tells her other daughter that.

"you know honey, I wanted to kill your sister and myself, but I didn't because I love you" ("I'm suicidal and homocidal against my own children, but don't worry honey, I still love you. Because you are not the bane of my existence like this other brat is")

The little girl doesn't say she wishes her sister wasn't autistic, she says she wishes her autistic sister didn't exist, and thats what her mom is teaching her.

The problem with this group is that they see autism as nothing but a disease. Of course it would be better if these low functioning kids didn't struggle, of course it would be better if they could function. But for every kid like that, there is one who functions well and wouldn't trade his autism for the world

because: that is who he is. That is the problem with trying to "cure" autism. Its not a cyst you can remove. It is WHO a person is. It is the very nature of your thought process. Parts of that can be a "bad" thing in many people. But it is still who they are. Of course we should try to get the low functioning kids to function better.

But the problem is: as long as you continue to view autism as a disease, you WILL NOT help them.

Screw Autism speaks. They don't speak for autistic kids. They speak for selfish spoiled yuppie moms who have no concept of self sacrifice, whose lives are devoted to having no responsiblitiy and some imaginary disposable income.

Now I'm not trying to demean the legitimate pain a lot of parents go through. Just the message portrayed in the video. Some of the parents may love their kids but you wouldn't know it based on the video.



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05 Mar 2007, 10:27 pm

(Right, now that I am assured that humanity is doing wonderful, I'm going to go be sick.)

I read about this when it came out - saw the blogs by other parents of autistic children - and was furious then. I'm furious now too. They're giving out the message that it's ok to kill your autistic child so long as you don't have any others.
There have been other cases in the past where the parent(s) have actually killed the autistic child. Instead of saying anything against that, they're encouraging that behavior. (*If you can't deal with kid, kill her* is never an acceptable answer.) They say they want help? And yet they're driving others of the community farther away with each statement like that, and it doesn't take a genius to realize that. That movie is one giant pity party.

I heard that she also ignored her daughter's comment, "I love you," saying only "Ok." (Or something to that effect. It's been a few months.) Every child deserves love, and if you are incapable of expressing love for your child - autisic, nuerotypical, or otherwise - you do not deserve to have that child. There are other people who are not only capable of raising the child (which means that, gosh upon gosh, they're not going to drive off a bridge), but can also deliever love and support, which is crucial to every child.


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05 Mar 2007, 10:41 pm

I remember being the easiest child in the world to teach, but teachers and my mother chose to throw life's lessons in my face, as hard as they could. Few people can take that kind of treatment even with the foods that they love the most, and those who can shouldn't.

Maybe this "autism" is a survival mechanism of some kind, an internal change in humans to reflect and deflect the dehumanizing influence of civilization while still incorporating the best of what humans have achieved. If that's what I have, it's a good and decent thing, and nothing to be afraid of.



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05 Mar 2007, 10:49 pm

Zeno,
I don't see how your response even addressed my reply to you. I'm (and most here) saying that Autism Speaks doesn't speak for us. I don't think of my son like that and I don't like your blanket generalizations.
You make a lot of assumptions about parenting methodology and autistic reaction to that. Again, you're generalizing without explaining how you got those conclusions. My childhood experience was vastly different from my husband's and my son has had an altogether opposite experience of either of us. In fact, my son's reaction to violence and adult tantruming is the opposite of your description. You yell at him, he yells back. Threaten him and he threatens back. Grab him and he'll kick you. That's why I had to pull him out of the last school he went to. He mimics the most dramatic thing going on and isn't scared into silence.
My point is, before I get another lecture on child abuse (know all about it, thanks), that we don't believe most parents feel this way about their autistic kids. And even if we did at least once in a while (feel despair, depression, grief) we don't talk about it unabashedly in front of our kids. It's not their fault and they aren't equipped to hear it.

I don't like your accusation that mothers are more likely to hurt their autistic kids. I've heard plenty of "my dad was an intolerant so and so" around here and offline to say that your comments are inaccurate.



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05 Mar 2007, 10:54 pm

Kim, it sounds like your son firmly believes that he has the right to treat others the way that they treat him. What does he do when someone treats him with real affection?



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05 Mar 2007, 10:54 pm

Zeno wrote:
A child who has been diagnosed with autism, especially the Kanners type, would bring a sickening sense of horror to any parent. Some may view this as a test of their humanity and courage, but there will be many who will simply take their frustration out on the kid.


I did not bring a sickening sense of horror to my parents. My parents are insulted by people who say or even insinuate things like that.


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05 Mar 2007, 10:56 pm

Zeno wrote:
Some parents are martyrs who are willing to sacrifice everything for their autistic children but not everyone is like that. Autism does not only make a living dead out of autistics, it often does the same to the people who are around that autistic.


It does not take a martyr or anything close to it, nor a hero, nor anything special, to not be horrified by having an autistic child. Autism does not make a living dead out of autistics, either. How dehumanizing can you get?


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05 Mar 2007, 11:12 pm

Remnant, that's exactly how he feels and learns. he's the most affectionate kid. I read the notes from his last school and it's like he's a different person. They were such morons. It didn't matter how many times we explained "modelling" and "discrete learning", they treated him awful and then blamed him when he acted out or couldn't function in class.

The school he goes to now barely does anything "special" for him, in terms of services. They are mostly just patient, accepting and calm. But that's enough for him to succeed and learn.



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05 Mar 2007, 11:18 pm

That is great Kim! My teachers really did make the biggest difference with me because they just took the time and cared (even though back then no one knew what it was). I'm so encouraged to read that such teachers still exist. It will make a world of difference in his life.

Good for them!



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05 Mar 2007, 11:21 pm

KimJ wrote:
Remnant, that's exactly how he feels and learns. he's the most affectionate kid. I read the notes from his last school and it's like he's a different person. They were such morons. It didn't matter how many times we explained "modelling" and "discrete learning", they treated him awful and then blamed him when he acted out or couldn't function in class.

The school he goes to now barely does anything "special" for him, in terms of services. They are mostly just patient, accepting and calm. But that's enough for him to succeed and learn.


That's all that I would have needed.



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05 Mar 2007, 11:45 pm

richardbenson wrote:
if she didnt want her daughter why not just give her up for adoption? is adoption that shameful? or would it be too hard to get someone to take a kid that has a disability? i think autism is cute and if i ever have any kids i want one to be autistic


there are actually people who adopt kids who are autistic, we might eventually. hopefully.



Last edited by calibaby on 06 Mar 2007, 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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05 Mar 2007, 11:49 pm

KimJ wrote:
Zeno,
I don't see how your response even addressed my reply to you. I'm (and most here) saying that Autism Speaks doesn't speak for us. I don't think of my son like that and I don't like your blanket generalizations.
You make a lot of assumptions about parenting methodology and autistic reaction to that. Again, you're generalizing without explaining how you got those conclusions. My childhood experience was vastly different from my husband's and my son has had an altogether opposite experience of either of us. In fact, my son's reaction to violence and adult tantruming is the opposite of your description. You yell at him, he yells back. Threaten him and he threatens back. Grab him and he'll kick you. That's why I had to pull him out of the last school he went to. He mimics the most dramatic thing going on and isn't scared into silence.
My point is, before I get another lecture on child abuse (know all about it, thanks), that we don't believe most parents feel this way about their autistic kids. And even if we did at least once in a while (feel despair, depression, grief) we don't talk about it unabashedly in front of our kids. It's not their fault and they aren't equipped to hear it.

I don't like your accusation that mothers are more likely to hurt their autistic kids. I've heard plenty of "my dad was an intolerant so and so" around here and offline to say that your comments are inaccurate.


You're right KimJ. Your son sounds very much like me. Those are my same responses to whenever my parents threw a tantrum. Yell at me and I explode. Threaten me and I threaten you back with something worse. Grab me and I'll punch you. I was expelled from my school in 6th grade (whole other story though). I've had some rocky times with both of my parents, mostly my dad, but they're both decent people and good parents on the inside and I am sure they would never say anything like what that c**t who's VP of Autism Speaks said, even behind my back. That b*tch really is sick.

About the video, I wonder if that kid was an actor, not the real daughter, I remember even when I was that age my parents could never be condescending about me in front of me without having me get mad and say something disrespectful back, or throw something at them.



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06 Mar 2007, 12:01 am

Zeno wrote:
Talk to any Aspergian here, each of us harbor scars that are so deep, a betrayal so profound that it is even painful to even think about it.


I consider myself lucky, as I haven't gotten ANY such scars so far in my life. Things are bright for me, and seeing this is a jolt back into the harshness the world can be (whereas for those who've already experienced it it's like a flashback).

On another note, I made a great logo, inspired by what Bazza said:

Image


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06 Mar 2007, 12:12 am

Wonderful KBABZ! !