Why Do People Hate Self-Diagnosers?
ASPartOfMe
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The individual who self-diagnoses cannot do that, no matter how well they know themselves from the inside.
The autism traits are to be matched with individual traits from the outside, not the inside, so self-diagnosis of matching outside autism traits with inside individual traits is misuse of diagnostic criteria.
Self-diagnosis misses the most important component of autism assessment, then replaces that component with misuse of diagnostic criteria.
That may not be true if their autism investigation involves asking other people about themselves.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Same here. I was very shocked when I was diagnosed and thought maybe it was a mistake but my family weren't shocked at all.
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We become what we think about; since everything in the beginning is just an idea.
Destruction and creation are 2 sides of the same coin.
btbnnyr
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Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
The individual who self-diagnoses cannot do that, no matter how well they know themselves from the inside.
The autism traits are to be the matched with individual traits from the outside, not the inside, so self-diagnosis of matching outside autism traits with inside individual traits is misuse of diagnostic criteria.
Self-diagnosis misses the most important component of autism assessment, then replaces that component with misuse of diagnostic criteria.
That may not be true if their autism investigation involves asking other people about themselves.
That is not good substitute for professional observation. The others are usually amateurs who don't assess people for autism. The responses are modulated by relationship with the person. The person can interpret what others say however they want. The info from others provided to a professional using questionnaire or interview is best way to take into account others' views of the person being assessed for autism.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
Professional misdiagnosis or missed diagnosis do not add validity or credibility to self-diagnosis.
I am well aware of the positivist belief that value judgments never enter into positivist science, btbnnyr. And also of the considerable body of critique of positivism; between theory and methodology there is a positivist minefield, as you will also know. I don't share your faith in the pristine application of positivism in the soft sciences which rely on human interaction.
Personally I think that in this area of applied psychology, it is riddled with value judgments, and gaps in existing knowledge and theory complicate that process. Assessment is not just a clinical process; it is also a communicative encounter between unique individuals, inherently biased by pre-existing assumptions, experience and class beliefs etc on both sides, and not all of these operate on a conscious level.
JJ2015, I hear you. People are in pain because of the undermining that goes on.
I don't know any of the things you mentioned about positivist something.
I am talking about the difference between process of professional diagnosis vs self diagnosis of how traits are matched to diagnostic criteria, in one case criteria is used how they are not designed to be used.
That's one of the issues in assessment psychology: we don't know what we don't know
btbnnyr
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Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
Professional misdiagnosis or missed diagnosis do not add validity or credibility to self-diagnosis.
I am well aware of the positivist belief that value judgments never enter into positivist science, btbnnyr. And also of the considerable body of critique of positivism; between theory and methodology there is a positivist minefield, as you will also know. I don't share your faith in the pristine application of positivism in the soft sciences which rely on human interaction.
Personally I think that in this area of applied psychology, it is riddled with value judgments, and gaps in existing knowledge and theory complicate that process. Assessment is not just a clinical process; it is also a communicative encounter between unique individuals, inherently biased by pre-existing assumptions, experience and class beliefs etc on both sides, and not all of these operate on a conscious level.
JJ2015, I hear you. People are in pain because of the undermining that goes on.
I don't know any of the things you mentioned about positivist something.
I am talking about the difference between process of professional diagnosis vs self diagnosis of how traits are matched to diagnostic criteria, in one case criteria is used how they are not designed to be used.
That's one of the issues in assessment psychology: we don't know what we don't know
I don't know what you're saying.
Who is we?
There are issues with professional diagnosis, which cannot be guaranteed to be 100% accurate, but these problems don't increase the validity of self-diagnosis.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
btbnnyr
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Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
The overall diagnosis direction caused by issues with professional diagnosis is unclear.
Overdiagnosis may be the biggest effect.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
Overdiagnosis may be the biggest effect.
Perhaps validation for those who doubt their diagnosis?
For what it's worth , I suspect (based upon no evidence whatsoever) that most self-diagnosed folks on WP would receive a professional diagnosis, if that were within their means (by means, I mean access to a professional and funds to afford one).
ASPartOfMe
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Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
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Posts: 35,829
Location: Long Island, New York
What I have been trying to get across it is all about circumstance. I agree that an expert, up to date specialist in your demographic has a somewhat better chance of getting a diagnosis correct then you, even if you are a smart thorough self investigator due to conformation bias etc. But these perfect circumstances are rare. If by this point you still do not think or understand there in a lot of places for a lot of demographic groups that professional diagnosis is not an current or even medium term option I do not know what we can do. Too many of you have assumed those that bring up these reasons for their decision to self diagnosis are probably drama queens, attention whores or outright liars. A lot of you do understand these circumstances but disagree with the self diagnosis response. I have asked repeatedly what would be a better solution to this circumstance. A few posters have given well thought out alternate solutions but the overwhelming response has been silence. The idea of any type of diagnosis is to get it right or get it right as possible for the purpose of help of some sort. Circumstances are going to determine what solution(s) will work what and won’t.
I do not deny there are self diagnosed Aspie wannabees, drama queens, attention whores. I do not think it is this massive problem many think it is. I don’t know if I am right, as far as I know there are no studies on this so therefore if you that think it is significant phenomenon you don’t know either. Celebrity self diagnosers do negatively effect perceptions but that does not describe most here. Most are not blabbing there self diagnosed autism to the world but discussing autism on a autism forum. Most self diagnosers who get it wrong are only hurting themselves. They are not hurting you or messing with the definition of “real autism” whatever that is. And even if they are why let them define you or autism?
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 12 Jun 2015, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am self diagnosed. I am sure that I have aspergers. I relate to aspies' experiences in a way that i just can't with other people. I am not a person that makes assumptions about things. Even though I recognized so many things in myself the first time I read about it, I researched aspergers for months before I let myself finally acknowledge that I have it. I have not gotten officialy diagnosed because I simply can't afford it right now. That doesn't mean that I'm making it up or that I can't still find comfort in the knowledge of it. I have chosen not to tell anyone (other than my partner and my parents) until I get an official diagnosis. But until then I am using the information that I have access to and working on my relationships with others and myself. While I agree that there probably are many people who either knowingly fake having aspergers or just want to believe that they do, aspergers doesn't begin once a professional says you have it. It is a little arrogant and elitist in my opinion to box out those who are self diagnosed. Most of us are probably left out enough and the last thing we need is to go somewhere to find comfort and be made to feel as if we still aren't good enough. Just saying.
ASPartOfMe
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Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
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Location: Long Island, New York
The individual who self-diagnoses cannot do that, no matter how well they know themselves from the inside.
The autism traits are to be the matched with individual traits from the outside, not the inside, so self-diagnosis of matching outside autism traits with inside individual traits is misuse of diagnostic criteria.
Self-diagnosis misses the most important component of autism assessment, then replaces that component with misuse of diagnostic criteria.
That may not be true if their autism investigation involves asking other people about themselves.
That is not good substitute for professional observation. The others are usually amateurs who don't assess people for autism. The responses are modulated by relationship with the person. The person can interpret what others say however they want. The info from others provided to a professional using questionnaire or interview is best way to take into account others' views of the person being assessed for autism.
While not optimal for the reasons you stated the professionals do interview relatives as part of assessments because it's the best available. I have not thought of it before but a thorough self investigator probably should give the better online questionnaires to people who know them.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
You are a breath of fresh air, APOM.
The sometimes aggressive, condescending remarks aimed at the self-identified contribute to an atmosphere of destructive conflict; these have ranged from wild and unsubstantiated sneering insinuations "we know they are all making it up, just for attention!" to more subtle pressures " but you are really missing out on help!" to outright invalidation that often sounds more like a power trip that an interest in weighing a variety of factors that influence how accurate diagnosis actually is. The apparently calculated unkindness in dissing something - anything - which to a large section of the WP membership is personally meaningful and important is driven by something, and I wonder what it is (have theories!)
There is nothing wrong at all with stating a belief that formal diagnosis was right for you; there is something wrong with disrespecting those who don't share that belief. Whether you are formally diagnosed or not - feeling confident as a person on the spectrum won't come from attempts to form a hierarchy of valid and non-valid members - which is what some posters seem to aim for. Extremists suggest that anyone not formally diagnosed cannot possibly be on the spectrum; but diagnosis doesn't create ASD; it may - or may not - confirm it.
Finally, if you are self-diagnosed and are feeling brutalised by some of the attacks in this thread, an observational quote from Goethe:
"Look closely at those who patronise you; half are unfeeling, half untaught".
ASPartOfMe
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Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,829
Location: Long Island, New York
The sometimes aggressive, condescending remarks aimed at the self-identified contribute to an atmosphere of destructive conflict; these have ranged from wild and unsubstantiated sneering insinuations "we know they are all making it up, just for attention!" to more subtle pressures " but you are really missing out on help!" to outright invalidation that often sounds more like a power trip that an interest in weighing a variety of factors that influence how accurate diagnosis actually is. The apparently calculated unkindness in dissing something - anything - which to a large section of the WP membership is personally meaningful and important is driven by something, and I wonder what it is (have theories!)
There is nothing wrong at all with stating a belief that formal diagnosis was right for you; there is something wrong with disrespecting those who don't share that belief. Whether you are formally diagnosed or not - feeling confident as a person on the spectrum won't come from attempts to form a hierarchy of valid and non-valid members - which is what some posters seem to aim for. Extremists suggest that anyone not formally diagnosed cannot possibly be on the spectrum; but diagnosis doesn't create ASD; it may - or may not - confirm it.
Finally, if you are self-diagnosed and are feeling brutalised by some of the attacks in this thread, an observational quote from Goethe:
"Look closely at those who patronise you; half are unfeeling, half untaught".
Do not know what percent of it is calculated or lack of "Theory of Mind" and poor understanding of how they are coming off. But for this professionally diagnosed aspie-autistic it FEELS AT TIMES like an invalidation of all of us who grew up when most autism was unknown. Attention seeking drama queen or some variation is what we were described as and what we believed ourselves. The professionals used different more fancy words that often had similar meanings.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
btbnnyr
Veteran
Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
Overdiagnosis may be the biggest effect.
Perhaps validation for those who doubt their diagnosis?
For what it's worth , I suspect (based upon no evidence whatsoever) that most self-diagnosed folks on WP would receive a professional diagnosis, if that were within their means (by means, I mean access to a professional and funds to afford one).
I haven't gotten that impression that most self-diagnosed people on wp would be professionally diagnosed if they were assessed. Occasionally, I think that someone who describes their autistic traits is quite likely autistic. I ackshuly think people who have autistic traits but don't self-diagnose are more likely to be professionally diagnosed, and some are waiting for assessment.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
btbnnyr
Veteran
Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
The individual who self-diagnoses cannot do that, no matter how well they know themselves from the inside.
The autism traits are to be the matched with individual traits from the outside, not the inside, so self-diagnosis of matching outside autism traits with inside individual traits is misuse of diagnostic criteria.
Self-diagnosis misses the most important component of autism assessment, then replaces that component with misuse of diagnostic criteria.
That may not be true if their autism investigation involves asking other people about themselves.
That is not good substitute for professional observation. The others are usually amateurs who don't assess people for autism. The responses are modulated by relationship with the person. The person can interpret what others say however they want. The info from others provided to a professional using questionnaire or interview is best way to take into account others' views of the person being assessed for autism.
While not optimal for the reasons you stated the professionals do interview relatives as part of assessments because it's the best available. I have not thought of it before but a thorough self investigator probably should give the better online questionnaires to people who know them.
Interviewing others who know the person is what I said is part of the professional diagnosis process, not always, but often the parents are interviewed in person or by phone and given multiple questionnaires, sometimes the spouse or a sibling if parents are not available.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,829
Location: Long Island, New York
Overdiagnosis may be the biggest effect.
Perhaps validation for those who doubt their diagnosis?
For what it's worth , I suspect (based upon no evidence whatsoever) that most self-diagnosed folks on WP would receive a professional diagnosis, if that were within their means (by means, I mean access to a professional and funds to afford one).
I haven't gotten that impression that most self-diagnosed people on wp would be professionally diagnosed if they were assessed. Occasionally, I think that someone who describes their autistic traits is quite likely autistic. I ackshuly think people who have autistic traits but don't self-diagnose are more likely to be professionally diagnosed, and some are waiting for assessment.
I wish we still had the poll option. That would be a good question although I would broaden it to all who suspect autism. I would have options from just suspect to convinced.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
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