Do you think that virginia Tech killer Cho Seu was an Aspie?

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TheMachine1
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19 Apr 2007, 3:32 am

Yeah we maybe over analyzing this. While mass murdering rampages are rare suicide
is not. And certainly smaller scale murder suicides are common. So all you need is a
depressed person that is committed to killing their self and with some additional factor making them want to harm strangers such as paranoia.



0_equals_true
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19 Apr 2007, 3:46 am

NeantHumain wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
You're confusing sociopath with psychopath they are not the same thing. Psychopath is not really used as medical term anymore neither is sociopath but it comes under Antisocial Personality Disorder. People use psychopath as a very ambiguous term that isn't really helpful when you’re dealing with a lot of different conditions. Let me be clear I'm not saying anything that was just my first hunch. I wouldn't be surprised if the analysts had that hunch. It was at that point very typical of sociopathical behaviour.

This is incorrect. Psychopathy is very much a current term in forensic psychology (see Wikipedia - Psychopathy); the Psychopathy Checklist–Revised (PCL–R) and related psychological instruments are used to diagnose it. Psychopathy is not in the DSM-IV-TR or the ICD-10 diagnostic manuals; in these, antisocial/dissocial personality disorder comes closest to psychopathy. The term sociopathy is not used in any current diagnostic instrument or manual.

Some experts and theorists do, however, make a distinction between psychopathy and sociopathy. To David Lykken, a psychopath is someone born with a temperamental predisposition towards socially abrasive behavior (through fearlessness, impulsivity, and unemotionality). To Lykken, sociopaths learn antisocial behavior and attitudes from their environment. A psychopath doesn't feel guilt or remorse because they are physiologically almost incapable of such a feeling; a sociopath, however, was just never taught some things are wrong or was taught that doing bad things is good.

Another expert, Robert Hare, the creator of the PCL–R, defines psychopaths according to his checklist. To him, sociopaths don't necessarily have personality traits like guiltlessness or callousness but commit crimes with great regularity because they've joined a gang, the mob, or some other group that encourages antisocial behavior. To him, sociopaths can be loving towards, for example, family.

Other experts contend that psychopathy and sociopathy are exact synonyms. Meh.


Ok interesting. Have you noticed that many 'successful' antisocial personalities rather than create a movement completely up from scratch have used existing structures to their advantage.

Like for instance Hitler started talking at a beer hall where the socialist party met. Nobody knew who he was at first. He began to dominate there and completely steered the direction of the party. Anyone who go in his way he ruthlessly discredited. He was so proactive that nobody stopped to question his credentials (he had none). Then he used the Arian mysticism/spiritualism that Himmler&Co was into (In many ways Himmler was more loony than Hitler) to help join together his inner circle. Then to gain German popular support he used the sense of outrage again the republic and the dented pride from the first world war. he really emphasised this strong German identity (especially Christianity) that had be tainted by foreign blood (despite being Austrian and of Jewish decent).

You can say the same for Stalin, Bin Laden. Just a theory I have.



0_equals_true
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19 Apr 2007, 3:58 am

janicka wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
Interestingly Hitler lied about going to art school but he didn't get in. He used to pretend to his family he was going when he was bum about town


Interesting... Sounds like Mark Hacking.

Actually I can't find any text. I heard it on tv. What I do know is he failed the entrance exam. There was a period before he returned to his dying mother. I'm not sure whether he lied about it them or he lied about it later or it was speciation, he was certainly ashamed about it. He definitely lied about aspect of his life which is quite common in dictators.

I found this interesting
Quote:
Young Hitler did not have a girlfriend. But he did have an obsessive interest in a young blond named Stephanie. He would stare at her as she walked by and sometimes followed her. He wrote her many love poems. But he never delivered the poems or worked up the nerve to introduce himself, preferring to keep her in his fantasies. He told his friend Kubizek he was able to communicate with her by intuition and that she was even aware of his thoughts and had great admiration for him. He was also deeply jealous of any attention she showed to other young men.

In reality, she had no idea Hitler had any interest in her. Years later, when told of the interest of her now-famous secret admirer, she expressed complete surprise, although she remembered getting one weird unsigned letter.

Hitler's view of the world, also based in fantasy, began to significantly take shape. He borrowed large numbers of books from the library on German history and Nordic mythology. He was also deeply inspired by the opera works of Richard Wagner and their pagan, mythical tales of struggle against hated enemies. His friend Kubizek recalled that after seeing Wagner's opera "Rienzi," Hitler behaved as if possessed. Hitler led his friend atop a steep hill where he spoke in a strange voice of a great mission in which he would lead the people to freedom, similar to the plot in the opera he had just seen.



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19 Apr 2007, 4:00 am

aylissa wrote:
I think that this is a dangerous thread.

Other people that are not on the spectrum peruse this site, and I think it would be really bad for our image to be having this conversation.

I also think it's important for those of us on the spectrum to have a clear understanding that just because a person is a loner, or shares one characteristic with aspies, does not make him/her one. Psychopaths and sociopaths are, by diagnosis, usually loners also. The thought that any of you out there might for one second think this psychopath has anything similar to you, is heartbreaking. We have enough to deal with, without adding a psychotic disorder fear to our list.

I would ask the community to reconsider having this discussion, and agreeing to lock it for everybody's benefit.
Mods? Please discuss.

I understand your consern, and it did cross my mind. But really we have nothing to hide and that is exactly the point I was trying to make. I think if they shut this thread down it would look bad.



SteveK
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19 Apr 2007, 5:22 am

He was a HYPOCRITE, and ILLOGICAL! He WANTED to be confusing, insulting, scary, famous, etc.... He doesn't seem very literate. It didn't even seem like he wrote what he was reading.

All of this screams he is NOT ASPIE!

I would have an easier time thinking that he was brainwashed into doing this by moslem terrorists. Frankly, it makes more sense.

And I don't know WHO he was talking about, but it didn't sound like the victims.

Steve



Last edited by SteveK on 19 Apr 2007, 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Apr 2007, 5:35 am

I pulled this off the BBC website

The BBC wrote:
Steve Hinshaw, chair of the psychology department at the University of California Berkeley, told AFP news agency, that while it was impossible to accurately diagnose Cho from the brief set of video clips, his actions and words showed Cho could have been suffering from a severe case of grandiosity and possibly either bipolar depression or schizophrenia.

"He made a statement that he won't be put down and this must be shown in a self-destructive but self-promoting blaze of glory," he said.


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19 Apr 2007, 5:41 am

I'm concerned with how a person gets twisted like this. I think that I could write a few chapters of a book on the different ways that so-called normals have fantasies of dominating people using mass murder. The occasional spree killer does not seem to me to be all that different from groups of people who get together to kill off other groups of people or animals.

One thing that worries me, and this is supported by history, is that so many ordinary people will do what Cho did if they can justify it morally. Some of the attacks by American troops on the native populations, they justified because the victims were "naked savages" even though those "naked savages" were the opposite of harmful. A lot of the destruction of people and animals by Americans, British, and other imperialist powers was done on purpose just to generate waste and pain and grief. Asians have done a lot of this too.

Cho did not practice a morality or a mode of action that is substantially different from those practiced on a regular basis and even respected by the NT population. He will not be condemned so much for what he did, which is not substantially different from NT daydreams, but for who he did it to, because he did it to "us" and not to "them." The strains that people put on others as a matter of course were designed a long time ago to make soldiers out of people even in peacetime. Judeo-Christianity brought far more militarism into the places that it invaded than compassion. Destruction of humans and their lives, including the things that they love to do, is almost a peculiarly Christian sort of thing. Punishing people for making normal mistakes, sinning, in the normal course of life is almost peculiarly Christian.

The harassment of others as a group comes from a certain set of beliefs, and so does the destructive solution to the harassment. Each feeds the other in a cycle that is designed to be endless.



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19 Apr 2007, 6:00 am

Ragtime wrote:
I have to think that he was. Possibly not, but you can't say he doesn't seem like an Aspie in every way.


Why did you even get diagnosed? I have to wonder WHY people figure that being a hermit and hating people mean you are AS. BESIDES, ALL autism has this attitude(aloofness) as a basis, and a lot of psychological orders have a similar feeling with some kind of hatred(which is more like CHO, by the way). Autism generally doesn't mention a hatred, because there generally ISN'T one! Do YOU feel like cho?

GRANTED, a lot here, including myself, speak like we HATE NTs but, when it comes down to it, it is really more like an intense dislike triggered by frustration. As I said, I would rather they all just became ASPIE!

Steve



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19 Apr 2007, 6:06 am

SteveK wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
I have to think that he was. Possibly not, but you can't say he doesn't seem like an Aspie in every way.


Why did you even get diagnosed? I have to wonder WHY people figure that being a hermit and hating people mean you are AS. BESIDES, ALL autism has this attitude(aloofness) as a basis, and a lot of psychological orders have a similar feeling with some kind of hatred(which is more like CHO, by the way). Autism generally doesn't mention a hatred, because there generally ISN'T one! Do YOU feel like cho?

GRANTED, a lot here, including myself, speak like we HATE NTs but, when it comes down to it, it is really more like an intense dislike triggered by frustration. As I said, I would rather they all just became ASPIE!

Steve


Just design a biological warfare virus that adds 40 points to everyone's IQ.



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19 Apr 2007, 6:13 am

Remnant wrote:
SteveK wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
I have to think that he was. Possibly not, but you can't say he doesn't seem like an Aspie in every way.


Why did you even get diagnosed? I have to wonder WHY people figure that being a hermit and hating people mean you are AS. BESIDES, ALL autism has this attitude(aloofness) as a basis, and a lot of psychological orders have a similar feeling with some kind of hatred(which is more like CHO, by the way). Autism generally doesn't mention a hatred, because there generally ISN'T one! Do YOU feel like cho?

GRANTED, a lot here, including myself, speak like we HATE NTs but, when it comes down to it, it is really more like an intense dislike triggered by frustration. As I said, I would rather they all just became ASPIE!

Steve


Just design a biological warfare virus that adds 40 points to everyone's IQ.


Do you have ANY idea where to start on that?



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19 Apr 2007, 6:16 am

SteveK wrote:
He was a HYPOCRITE, and ILLOGICAL! He WANTED to be confusing, insulting, scary, famous, etc....


steve, I had the same thought-- that quite possibily he was acting crazy for the camera for dramatic effect. Either that or he's a bonafide madman-- his ramblings about "his children" and being like jesus were incoherent and impossible to follow. He was either totally crazy, faking it, or on drugs.



Zhaozhou
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19 Apr 2007, 6:57 am

0_equals_true wrote:
He definitely lied about aspect of his life which is quite common in dictators.

That's because he was NT, not because he was a dictator.
Quote:
He told his friend Kubizek he was able to communicate with her by intuition and that she was even aware of his thoughts and had great admiration for him.

About Hitler and Nazism are written so many things I can't believe all of them. Hitler has became a mythical villain and everyone wants to hear things congruent to this vision. Thanks to Hitchcock mentally ills are evil, Hitler is evil so he must have been mentally ill. It fits.

By the way, this is a form of paranoia called erotomania. For istance, the assassination attempt of Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley, Jr. was reported to have been driven by an erotomanic delusion that the death of the president would cause actress Jodie Foster to publicly declare her love for Hinckley.



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19 Apr 2007, 7:02 am

Zhaozhou wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
He definitely lied about aspect of his life which is quite common in dictators.

That's because he was NT, not because he was a dictator.
Quote:
He told his friend Kubizek he was able to communicate with her by intuition and that she was even aware of his thoughts and had great admiration for him.

About Hitler and Nazism are written so many things I can't believe all of them. Hitler has became a mythical villain and everyone wants to hear things congruent to this vision. Thanks to Hitchcock mentally ills are evil, Hitler is evil so he must have been mentally ill. It fits.

By the way, this is a form of paranoia called erotomania. For istance, the assassination attempt of Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley, Jr. was reported to have been driven by an erotomanic delusion that the death of the president would cause actress Jodie Foster to publicly declare her love for Hinckley.

Actually I'm trying to say the opposite hitler wasn't mentally ill



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19 Apr 2007, 8:39 am

Here's another story about Cho in which they mention that schizophrenia, which they think Cho had, could make someone withdraw and seem as if they were AS or autistic.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266808,00.html



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19 Apr 2007, 9:42 am

I read an interesting post written by an epidemiologist, he that said that children who’s parents work as Dry Cleaners (Cho's parents work as dry cleaners) are 380% more likely to develop schizophrenia (RR=3.4, 95% CI, 1.3-9.2, p=0.01; for those that understand stats.) because of a dry cleaning chemical (Tetrachloroethylene). He might have swallowed some accidentally as a child.

Link: Dry Cleaning Chemicals and Schizophrenia

Cho had a form of schizophrenia caused by Tetrachloroethylene.



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19 Apr 2007, 10:19 am

whitequeen96 wrote:
OK, I'm going to tell you my theory about mass or serial murderers. I've noticed a pattern; every single one of them drank water from the time they were children! They also spent a significant number of hours sleeping, walking and sitting! And without exception, every single one of them ate food!


Nice.

You know, yesterday on MSNBC website, they had an article about "profiling" school shooters, and they pretty much came to the same conclusion as you. There is not profile.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15111438/