Men and Masking

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Double Retired
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16 Dec 2021, 10:20 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Here's another good article about Masking or Camouflaging:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 1319878559
...

Wow. I finally got around to reading it and it is a great article (paper?). I think I agree with the whole thing but there are multiple places where I want to exclaim "YES!"

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HighLlama
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17 Dec 2021, 4:32 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

- If you were diagnosed in school, or you went to special ed., how did that affect your social confidence? For the first few years I didn't even know as Asperger’s syndrome was. They told me I had it but I didn't know what it was. Internet access wasn't quite ubiquitous at the time and the school library was stocked with books from the 1970s. By the time I was 13 or so, I found out that Asperger’s is considered a disability and this made me feel very embarrassed. One of my mother’s friends thought he could pray the Asperger’s away. It didn't work. It's a lifelong condition.

When I was 15 I went through a try hard stage (academically), taking on extra subjects, etc and then got burnout. For the next few years I maintained that I couldn't continue in full-time study or full-time work because "full time is impossible for aspies". I now know that I can do full time so long as I manage my time and energy carefully.

Sorry to go back to an old post, RetroGamer, but I had a question. I work with people with intellectual disabilities, and I think very rarely are their diagnoses ever explained to them. I feel they are told to self-advocate, but never explained these labels so they can either agree or disagree with them. I realize a diagnosis can be hard to explain to a child, but I find that very cruel. It seems this is common with ASD/Asperger's and probably most conditions or disabilities. I was curious how you feel about that--if you have any feelings about it.

Double Retired
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17 Dec 2021, 9:46 am

HighLlama wrote:

...I think very rarely are their diagnoses ever explained to them.

I am not disagreeing with anything you said. I'm just thinking "So far, my impression is good explanations for adults seem rare."

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Dear_one
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17 Dec 2021, 11:07 am

^^ So far, my impression is that accurate explanations are impossible. Every aspie has to discover their own flavour. It might be helpful to know what other aspie we remind people of, but not to be assumed to actually be similar.

HighLlama
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17 Dec 2021, 4:27 pm

Double Retired wrote:

HighLlama wrote:

...I think very rarely are their diagnoses ever explained to them.

I am not disagreeing with anything you said. I'm just thinking "So far, my impression is good explanations for adults seem rare."

I was responding to RetroGamer87, not you. So I didn't mean to give you the impression we were disagreeing.

HighLlama
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17 Dec 2021, 4:30 pm

Dear_one wrote:

Yes, but they probably couldn't explain to the individual that individual's experience, but they wouldn't need to. I meant they should be clearer about why the diagnosis is given. For example, "We're giving this diagnosis because you seem to have difficulty with planning/executive function," etc. Or maybe explain the NT experience better, to illustrate the difference leading to a diagnosis. Though, I suppose as I play that out in my head I see how hard it is. I just feel bad for people getting a diagnosis and aids without really knowing why.

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17 Dec 2021, 4:48 pm

HighLlama wrote:

Dear_one wrote:

They could tell you their reasons, but that should also come with the caveat that only about 10% of professionals are actually competent. The rest are Dunning-Kruger cases just trying to imitate wisdom. John Cleese did the survey.

HighLlama
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17 Dec 2021, 4:52 pm

Dear_one wrote:

HighLlama wrote:

Dear_one wrote:

LOL

good one!

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17 Dec 2021, 5:01 pm

HighLlama wrote:

LOL

good one![/quote]

It is funny, but also tragic, when a fool in authority is sealing your fate for a year or more.

Double Retired
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17 Dec 2021, 5:32 pm

HighLlama wrote:

I was responding to RetroGamer87, not you. So I didn't mean to give you the impression we were disagreeing.

I did not have the impression you were disagreeing with anyone. I wanted to give the impression that I was going off on a tangent.

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Rexi
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18 Dec 2021, 3:07 pm

The_Znof wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

It's all really sad. I can see that people on the spectrum stand a good chance of developing CPTSD just from their daily experiences feeling shunned and different in an NT society. Overt bullying would of course, make that even more pronounced.

ABA as it is currently done is likely a big source of CPSD,

wow had a quick look and that is one hot topic. PTSD is being mentioned though, I guess as C does not exist for DSMies.

I was just wondering earlier about it. What exactly do they do in ABA?

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18 Dec 2021, 3:10 pm

"The Guardian reports that critics within the autism rights movement have likened the approach to dog training due to its history of using aversives such as electric shocks to change children's behaviour." -from Wikipedia

Holy f*****g s**t. That's not how any therapy is supposed to work. Let alone Dog Training.

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rowan_nichol
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20 Dec 2021, 11:19 am

Indeed, as I read about ABA my disquiet remains.

Even with aversives not used, I see the hazard of setting up people in people pleasing mode all the time, and I see the possibility that leaves people very vulnerable to being manipulated, never asserting for perfectly reasonable needs and ending up burned out and miserable or stuck in harmful relationships.

JimJohn
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20 Dec 2021, 10:51 pm

I imagine masking includes not speaking.

IsabellaLinton
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20 Dec 2021, 11:06 pm

HighLlama wrote:

- Being misunderstood is the worst. When you joke, they think you're serious, and when you're serious they think you're joking, basically. It's very frustrating. Every conversation feels like a battle. Also, if you avoid eye contact, they think you're done talking, so you have to force yourself to do something painful, just to get a basic idea out. Very exhausting. You try to find other ways to be heard, but having to always listen and never be listened to can really weaken you.

- Also, people not understanding why you're so quiet or withdrawn. They always think nothing bothers me and that I don't experience anger or stress. Most days I feel I'm being assaulted by noise, light, or interaction. I go through a hell they'll never experience. It's like being raped every day, having your boundaries violated while you put on a fake smile. And they just think you're meek, goofy, and weird.

-I'm usually not so expressive. Though, people are shocked if I'm angry, or sometimes mock me if I'm excited. This is very insulting. Usually I have to fake them, especially for the sake of getting along with coworkers.

- a whole person is being squeezed into a label.

- I think people would have to acknowledge that I actually have emotions first. Most people think I'm here to deal with their baggage.

- The media hears pretty people and loud people. And, more and more, is for people who don't seem to read or care about opposing viewpoints.

I've been reading and rereading these answers for days, HL, and I can't begin to tell you how much I can relate. I don't want to make the thread about me so I won't elaborate, but I think your words are very empowering. A lot of autistic men feel the same way based on what they've written here, but your descriptions are so vivid I'm rather speechless.

Thank you again for explaining what it's like to be you.

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HighLlama
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21 Dec 2021, 1:12 am

Thank you It's nice to have someone appreciate that, especially around the frenzied, neurotypical events of the holidays.

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