Autism and empathy

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This. Thank you, Kitlily. Yes it seems the UK and the US have different scientific research and views of autism, which is why I cannot agree on this with the Americans here.

I've noticed there are lots of differences between American and British healthcare and our attitudes to health and illness.

We're divided by the same language sometimes.

I can appreciate that your news media might be different but most autism research or personal anecdotes about autism (books, YouTube videos, etc.) aren't made in UK. They tend to be from USA, Canada, or even Australia. This site also offers a lot of insight about Autism and it tends to have more American members than British. Same with Autism Forums.

Do you read books about women's autism Joe, or watch any YouTube channels? Most of those that we've linked aren't British and they don't espouse of those incorrect views about autism. In fact they challenge and refute them.

I think out of all the British things I have read/watched about autism, the book Ways To Be Me by Libby Scott was probably the most accurate thing about autism ever. It was actually written by an autistic girl but it still didn't waffle on about the autistic person lacking empathy while the rest of the world have empathy. It actually pointed out the truth that NTs aren't perfect either and that they can lack empathy too.

This older thread is one example of how I think how often autistics get accused of lacking empathy, by NTs. Apparently autistics don't understand the concept of death because we ''lack empathy''. But I have read, and been told by NTs, that death is hard for everyone to understand the concept of, which is why so many people fear death. But because lacking empathy is listed in the autism criteria, people (both NT and ND) seem to take that literally and see everything we do or think is a result of lacking empathy. Do you see what I mean now? (Take no notice of the link in the OP of that thread as it is no longer functional, but look at the replies).
viewtopic.php?t=379251&hilit=+death+empathy
If autism can be so difficult for an NT to understand then how can they say that autistics lack empathy with death? Works both ways. If NTs did have empathy for things they haven't experienced then they would be able to write an excellently accurate book about what autism really is and how we all feel. But oftentimes they fail at this.

Another example is when I was watching an autism documentary (several years ago now) where an autistic boy was severely bullied at school by other boys, like calling him names and saying nasty things to him. So, in self-defence, the autistic boy couldn't take it no more and he retaliated. Although the staff were aware of the bullying, the poor autistic boy got a lecture from the principal (headmistress, as it was a UK documentary), who was also aware of the bullying, and said ''how do you think it made them feel when you call them a name?'' Because he was autistic, he got those words said to him, like we've always got to be reminded of other people's feelings like we're 5, even though those bullies were provoking and were calling him worst names and nobody asked them about how the autistic boy was feeling. I bet the autistic boy knew exactly how he was making them feel when he called them a name, he wanted them to feel the same as how they've been making him feel. But because ''lack of empathy'' is listed in the autism criteria, it seems that we're defined by that mythical trait. Do you see why I get frustrated now?

I'm not just thinking up this to cause trouble or upset other autistic people, it's information I have literally picked up throughout my life. I'm just trying to debunk this stereotype/myth/whatever you like to call it, whenever I see it brought up on here.

I don't believe in empathy.

Huh?

What do you think is the mechanism behind people seeming to feel the emotions of other people? Do you think it's just an act?

(This question isn't meant to be hostile or rhetorical, I've just never heard someone say they don't believe in empathy and I want to understand what your thought process is)

I've just never seen any actual evidence of a genuine case of empathy.

Where does it say this in the autism criteria?








I don't see that specified anywhere.


Also what's that thing you said about autistic people not understanding death?
I'm confused.
That's a new one for me.

Ugh. I've had that happen to me a few times. People are horrible to me, yet when I retaliate, I'M the one blamed. Erm...it was they who started it? Didn't other people notice I was the one being targeted?

It's very odd. I suppose the attackers are somehow doing it secretly or hiding it somehow? There were other ones who were nasty to me in private but not in public, that's another way they do it.

Maybe the answer is to call them out the minute they do it- 'that was a horrible thing to say'- at the time and not let it slide.

Well it's usually listed as a trait when doing research.



It was new to me too. Didn't you tap the link to the thread?

I don't know how they can test for empathy when diagnosing small children anyway. Children are quite egocentric as I understand.

I just Googled 'Autism Lack of Empathy' and there was a raft of articles saying either 'autistic people lack empathy' or 'autistic people don't lack empathy'.

I think it's a continuing debate.

This one was really interesting:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog ... y-disorder

It seems Simon Baron-Cohen has a lot to answer for!

This is exactly what I was trying to say. Glad there's proof to support the fact that I wasn't making it up.

You're not making it up. I'm not arguing with anyone about this, I'm just showing that there are medical people out there who have told us that autistic people lack empathy and it's been emphasised to us a lot.

I know these articles present both sides but I've read about the belief that autistic people lack empathy. It's one reason I never suspected I had autism, because I'm full of empathy.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-peopl ... 20spectrum.

https://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010/1 ... pathy.html

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 1319883506

https://leader.pubs.asha.org/doi/10.104 ... 5042020.58

It all seems to be Simon Baron-Cohen's research that put this damaging idea about autism in people's heads. I wonder if...because he is British, it was emphasised more to British people because of course we only saw British doctors and we didn't have the internet back then.

It seems like Americans have a different view about autistic people and their traits. Probably a more advanced view because their medical research is generally ahead of ours.

I know you know I'm not making it up.