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TLPG
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30 Dec 2007, 6:05 am

zendell wrote:
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I don't believe you have done anything but convince yourself you are doing better.


I've had doctors tell me that stuff I think is "all in my head" There's nothing I hate more than other people telling me that. It insults my intelligence. I felt like punching a doctor in the face once after he told me something like that. But I understand why you and other people would think that. I think things like that about some people.


Well I'm sorry, Zendell, but those doctors are absolutely right. That's exactly how placebos work - they trick the mind and body enough to create a solution of sorts to the prevailing problem. That's the case with all the bio-med treatments. In addition, it may also deal with an external problem that actually has nothing to do with the root condition, but contributes to the sensory overload. Now if you look at it like that rather than thinking you've improved your root condition - you'll get a better idea of what is actually happening.



zendell
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30 Dec 2007, 2:53 pm

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That's exactly how placebos work - they trick the mind and body enough to create a solution of sorts to the prevailing problem.


I don't believe in the placebo effect. If you look at placebo results where they report how many got worse it's usually something like:

Got better - 20%
No effect - 60%
Got worse - 20%

What that tells me is these people would have gotten better or worse even if they were told they were on the placebo or if they weren't given anything but simply asked whether they were better or worse at the end of the study. If there was a psychological placebo effect then more people would feel better than feel worse. With most drug studies, they are looking for such a minor benefit that they easily pick up slight improvements in health that would have occurred anyway. If they looked at major benefits it would be more like:

No effect - 100%

I don't know how anyone could call a 50% increase in muscle strength a placebo effect. I tested my max several times and it was never anywhere close to what I achieved with the gfcf diet and probiotics. I don't see how my 10x higher sensitivity to pain could possibly be the result of a placebo.



nominalist
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30 Dec 2007, 3:22 pm

zendell wrote:
If there was a psychological placebo effect then more people would feel better than feel worse.


There is actually no way of knowing that. Placebo effects are, even in my field of sociology, always an unknown quantity. That is one of the reasons controls are instituted.


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TLPG
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30 Dec 2007, 4:02 pm

zendell wrote:
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That's exactly how placebos work - they trick the mind and body enough to create a solution of sorts to the prevailing problem.


I don't believe in the placebo effect. If you look at placebo results where they report how many got worse it's usually something like:

Got better - 20%
No effect - 60%
Got worse - 20%


You're going to have to, because in this case you were in the 20% that got better. Your problem is you can't accept that your mind was tricked by a placebo effect.

And in medical history (going back decades) there is no such thing as 100 percent.



Joeker
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30 Dec 2007, 4:10 pm

Joeker wrote:
beau99 wrote:
Joeker wrote:

I think there's a hell of a lot more ethyl mercury in Thimerosal than in a fish ( :nemo: )

Of course, since it's methylmercury that's found in fish.

There's a reason why thimerosal is safe and certain fish aren't.


TLPG wrote:
Ethyl mercury is SAFE. It is after all a natural aspect of fish and breast milk. It's also the variety of mercury that is used in thiomersal.


We've got contradictions...
Help me sort this out, would you?


Will you answer me? Both of you are saying different things. What's what?
Ethyl or Methyl, fish, breast milk, thimerosal. I've been told that Ethyl is used in Thimerosal, and that it's the same kind found in breast milk and fish. Then I was told that it's Methyl Mercury that's found in fish, and that's why Thimerosal is safe. I think it's fairly rude that I'm ignored and dismissed out of hand because no one wants to take responsiblity for being wrong.

Neither of these points about Ethyl/Methyl Mercury are valid until they are poven, since they contradict each other, leading to an erronerous outcome of logic.

And also:

Joeker wrote:
TLPG, what are your scientific qualifications in this area?

TLPG wrote:
If you aren't a qualified scientist then there's no way you can properly evaluate scientific studies.


I would now like to point out that neither are you, TLPG. If this is what you think, then you are hardly in a position to accuse medical journals of quackery. You do not have those qualifications.


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gwenevyn
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30 Dec 2007, 4:36 pm

I'm definitely interested in seeing some sources about the differences between ethyl/methyl mercury.

I was reading just yesterday about an urban legend about Mr. Clean Magic Erasers. The allegation was that they contain formaldehyde and were therefore dangerous. It turns out that they contain an ingredient called formaldehyde-melamine-sodium bisulfite copolymer. While this chemical name contains the word "formaldehyde" it is not the same thing and is not toxic. I would not be surprised to see that something similar has come about regarding mercury in vaccines.

Personally I think the mercury camp is barking up the wrong tree. My own son had a reaction from the MMR and had a pervasive developmental regression shortly thereafter. This was documented with formal evaluations. He then made a "recovery". His dose of the MMR contained no mercury. I think the vaccine probably did have something to do with the mysterious thing that happened to my son, but obviously mercury had nothing to do with it. What I don't understand is why so many people choose one camp or the other instead of just being on the lookout for solid evidence of what could be happening to children with various forms of autism. I don't like that people jump to conclusions and insist they know it all, when really the most brilliant experts in the world have barely a clue. Why not work together to solve a mystery?

That said, let's not discount people's views just because they don't have a doctorate. All that's necessary to be a good researcher is the ability to think critically. We already know that doctors and other professionals are quite fallible. The views of some guy on a message board aren't necessarily less valuable.


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Joeker
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31 Dec 2007, 12:50 am

So, does anyone have some sources for information on Ethyl and Methyl Mercury, and what each are naturally found in?


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beau99
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31 Dec 2007, 12:59 am

http://www.greenfacts.org/glossary/mno/ ... ercury.htm

http://www.greenfacts.org/glossary/def/ethylmercury.htm

There's also Wikipedia, if you want to look there.


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