Adults with Aspergers Seem 'Normal' to Me

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For most people who are religious, if I tell them "there is no God", they will get angry at me.

So if that's your analogy... Why do you think it's ok to say "there is no Asperger's"?

Well some times people get defensive when they feel like someone is questioning their diagnoses in order to dis-validate their feelings and experiences and brush it off as BS. I can understand why, someone might feel that way. Now whether or not that is your intention I cannot say but that is why people might take it personally.

Very interesting

Are you in Germany? Is there an English translation of the word 'Vuxenhabilitering'?

I don't need this kind of help - I'm not good at managing my time but it I make more effort I can get more done. I'm also ok at filling in forms. I acknowledge that some people need help like this and it's good when they get it.

I wouldn't say I'm rejecting or invalidating anyone else's experiences, I'm trying to offer a different explanation for the difficulties by saying they are just part of the human condition as opposed to being a result of an actual disorder/abnormality - this holds for me anyway

It's the definition/interpretation that is being placed on the difficulties that I am questioning

Once I got my diagnosis I was finally able to see a counselor who understands people on the autistic spectrum and specializes in that group. This has allowed me to actually work on difficulties I have, both those related to being autistic and those that have much less to do with that. She helps me do what I can do and helps me work on my self esteem. She helps me figure out what I need to do to help myself, because I don't always know what to do even on very basic levels.

My diagnosis also allows me to go to occupational therapy. My diagnosis particularly matters here because I'm in the United States and thus need to fight for insurance to cover OT. I've only just started OT, but my counselor thinks this might be the thing I really need to be going back on the path of success (as defined by myself). I have severe hypersensitivities and while I've done quite a lot on learning about them, learning about what others do, and trying things for myself, I need professional help on this, because I'm basically running purely on willpower at this point.

As I am disabled, and do have challenges, a career or job is not easy for me. I'm unemployed and have not managed to so much as get more than one interview in years of job searching. I rarely find any jobs I could even theoretically do. Acknowledgement of my disability has me labeled as in the highest need of help group for vocational rehab in my state. This means that I'm getting the help I need to have the potential of getting a job and holding it. Even with this I'm likely to be going onto SSI, but I'm going to try as hard as I can to find a job that I can do (even if as hard as I can is only to the point where many people think I'm just being lazy).

To go with the above, the only way I'll be able to work is with accommodations. I will not be able to survive and thrive even enough to do a job in most situations, and will need little bits of accommodations to allow me to actually share what I can do. Accommodations are dependent on my disability status, as they're only required because of not discriminating against disabled people.

Continuing on the discrimination path - I have a cat who does huge amounts of things for me in terms of keeping myself more functional, having less severe and less frequent meltdowns (though still way too often), keeping myself taking care of myself when I'd forget to, and so on. She's an Emotional Support Animal and not just a pet. As I live in an apartment and will likely be moving to another apartment this distinction matters - its what keeps it so that she could be allowed in pet-free housing, because she's not just my pet, she's helps drastically with my disability. I don't know if the UK has similar laws, but animal help is something that is just dependent on the laws of the area.

There are more, but those are the immediate things that come to mind.



Acknowledging a disability and accepting and identify with a label, doesn't mean that someone isn't working on helping themselves, and is often part of self-help. I know in my case, both the label and the admitting to myself that I am disabled have been part of helping myself.

Part of helping myself is letting myself use what is available for help elsewhere.

Part of helping myself is actively researching what autism is, reading everything I have time for, from people who describe themselves as particularly high functioning aspies through non-verbal people. I read about what their lives are like, about what they do to help themselves. I let myself believe that I'm not broken when I start falling back into the negative self esteem. I find what they use to cope and take advantage of those ideas which I have not came up with myself in my years of trying to help myself. This label lets me know what the name for people similar to myself in their challenges are. This label lets me know what do I make sure to research.

Part of helping myself is saying that yes, I am disabled. Part of helping myself is taking that and then advocating for myself, saying that yes I am disabled and no I am not lesser than you. I am disabled and I can be happy. I am disabled and I can succeed. I am autistic and I am me, and my autism is not a bad thing, it is part of me. I am not bad. I am not wrong. I am not inept or incapable. I am have things I am completely unable to do. I have things I have drastic challenges doing. I will never have what others consider a normal life, but part of helping myself is saying that yes I am autistic and yes I am disabled, and I am me despite all of that and I am neither near the population's average nor lesser.

Part of helping myself is sharing what I have found helps. Part of helping myself is participating in communities for autism and sensory processing disorder. Part of helping myself is helping others and trying to help them have opportunities I didn't have.

Part of helping myself is saying to you that no, I cannot agree with any of what you're saying. I cannot agree with the idea that acknowledging my disability makes me a slave to it when it allows me more ways to do what I want with my life. I cannot agree with the idea that acknowledging my disability means that I am unwilling or lazy. I cannot agree with the idea that acknowledging my disability makes me less than those who have the option of pretending to be NT. I cannot agree with the idea that being anything other than myself and live with all of it, with helping myself with all the labels (which actually describe me rather than ones people try to force on me which don't) and everything positive and negative that comes with them is acceptable. I cannot agree with saying that I'm just different rather than disabled, yet I also cannot agree that disability is something that is innately wrong.

I am just me. I will do what I can for myself and others. I do do what I can for myself and others. If some days I cannot so much as keep myself fed and other days I can go out and explain to someone who has been unable to understand their math homework what they need to do, it does not mean I'm either lesser or normal. I am just me. It just so happens to be that I am also autistic.

(As for your comment about Asperger's being removed in the DSM-5, I'm incredibly glad about this and prefer just using the word autistic anyways. I can learn from the people who are unable to speak just as I can learn from the people who are working jobs and people are unaware of their autism when they're in public.)

Well what do you propose people change about that? I personally see nothing wrong with acknowledging one has a disorder that causes them difficulties, it does not mean they can't do anything just that they have difficulties the average person does not have to deal with.

I'm in Sweden. Vuxenhabilitering translates as adult habilitation, although I think the word 'habilitation is now obsolete in English. It used to mean 'to impart an ability or capacity to'

I don't feel threatened at all by someone saying there is no God - that's up to them - they are entitled to their own belief system. I can't speak for the people you know but they differ from me. The people you know don't represent the majority of people either, they're just a small sub-set of the whole of humanity. A person who gets angry when a person questions their faith is an idiot in my opinion.

Ooh pedantic aspie argument in the offing! (joke)

I didn't say 'there is no Aspergers', I said I don't recognise it as a valid label for myself anymore - others can do as they please

Sure, its part of the human condition. Disability is part of the human condition. However, treating someone as if they don't have differences that are disabling is preventing them from being able to function at their highest ability.

Being a difference doesn't mean its not also a disability. What Callista said in response to you really sums up what I want to say in response to this far better than I can.

Oh sorry I thought it was a German word. We use the word 'rehabilitation' over here as if to imply the habilitation was once there but now needs re-imparting. It's mainly used in terms of drug and alcohol rehabilitation services.

Yes but I'm talking specifically about me ie my experience of the label, not everyone elses'

The label doesn't work for me - if it does for other people that's great

I'm not disabled though. My differences might disadvantge me sometimes but others will have differences I don't have that will disadvantage them. I don't think I have a disability.

I was refused DLA - Disability Living Allowance so presumably the people who administer that benefit agreed with me!

THAT is the distinction I was looking for.

You don't get offended when people question your faith. That's cool.
You don't feel you need a label to describe your personal challenges. That's cool.

But most people do get offended when you question part of their identity. And that includes faith and labels, alike.

As I suggested on the other thread, I think this comes down to a "theory of mind" issue, which is something that many of us struggle with.

If that's actually what you're claiming, then that's reasonable. I cannot make any statements about your life and your experiences. If you feel that you don't want to identify with a label, I have no reason to tell you to do so.

However, that's not what you were saying and is not what any of us are responding to. Your first post in this thread - to show what I mean.



This statement is not about yourself, that statement is about adults with Asperger's. That statement is about people who deal with being drastically disabled as much as it is about you. That statement is saying that we don't have a disability, when we do. You might not have a disability in your mind, and treating yourself like you don't is reasonable. However, that does not change that I am disabled and that I share the diagnostic label that you were given - that the label does help me a lot, that I am dealing with far more than people realize at any given point, and that it doesn't matter how much you think I'm normal, I'm far from the human norm.

You say you're talking about yourself. Feel free to talk about yourself and say that viewing your AS in this manner has helped you in particular. Do not say that I am the same as you. Do not say that I'm just being treated like a lab rat for taking the help that I need. Do not say that I'm treating myself wrong by working on optimizing my life. My life is not yours and will never be the same as yours.

You say you're only talking about yourself. If that's what you mean, then say that.

Yes I agree - you've engineered a climb-down in my stance so that I have had to rephrase it in a more polite manner Can I laugh without it offending anyone?

I'm a facetious person - that's how I am I'm afraid

While I'll be the first to agree that I often don't 'get' what people get so annoyed about and that this can be interpreted as 'having theory of mind problems', stating that fact doesn't change the fact I have the problem

Couldn't it also be described as being over-logical and unemotional ie because I personally wouldn't get upset about something, I can't understand why others do

ie I expect everyone to think and act like me - I'd call that arrogance as much as a TOM problem

Just as NTs often think if you aren't actively smiling you're actively unhappy or angry, as opposed to just 'in neutral mode' ie they seem to lack theory of mind too here by projecting their own thoughts onto others

What I mean is there's many different interpretations available for a person's behaviour

Yes I do contradict myself as well. My initial stance was going down like a lead balloon and people were getting upset about it so I moderated it accordingly. And that's progress for me as in the past I'd have defended my inital stance regardless of how upset anyone was about it
- proving that I was 'right' would have been far more important to me than whether I was upsetting anyone. It is very easy for my brain to not factor in how other people are feeling/what they might be thinking at all - it's a blindspot when I have a point to prove.