The Neanderthal theory, your thoughts?

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I think it's a flawed and problematic theory. Some questions:

1. How can "aspies" be a sub-species when it's not strictly inheritable? i.e. It is possible for someone to have it when their parents don't. I don't doubt the strong genetic factor, but I do not believe it's the only cause. Are non-AS parents of AS kids part of the sub-species? It seems absurd.
2. Why are we relying on IQ as an absolutely reliable scale of measurement when numerous scientists have acknowledges flaws and biases? (Like nominalist says, so-called "racial discrepancies" disappear when a lot of these issues are controlled, like socio-economic status.)
3. Many autism researchers think IQ is a poor measurement for many autistic people. How do all autistic people fit into this theory, not just those who perform well on IQ tests?
4. This theory's creator is now claiming that this theory doesn't support white supremacy because of responses on a white supremacist message board. Does that mean one of this theory's proponents actually went to such a message board? (!)

Racism isn't always so obvious as people dressed up in white hats. This theory may promote a subtler and more insidious form. The fact that this theory relies on pseudo-scientific racism is a major problem and I am so tired of some people responding to this thread brushing it off. I don't like the idea of establishing some kind of "aspie supremacy" based on flawed IQ measures, and I definitely don't like the idea being used to bolster the idea that some "races" are just inherently smarter than others, especially when the science behind it is so thin. "The Bell Curve" has been debunked, folks.

There are no observations. The hypothesis is based almost entirely on supposition.

I am not suggesting that the proposition promotes racism. My point is that it could be used by racists, much was the book The Bell Curve, to promote or justify racism. I was personally on an academic panel which found more holes in that book than in a pound of Swiss cheese.

However, it is also questionable, IMO, to argue that Caucasoids have a higher average IQ than Negroids without also pointing out that cultural bias has been clearly shown in the Stanford-Binet and similar measures (as by administering an IQ test written in Ebonics to a sample of Blacks and Whites).

The problem with this statement is that mtDNA is passed solely from mother to child. Its certainly possible that (but might be proven false) that a male neanderthal could pass his nuclear DNA into Hss and it would not show in these mtDNA tests. Again, mtDNA is not combined and passed to a child. It comes straight as it is from the mother. The only differences will be from mutation. The father does not contribute his mtDNA to his children.

This is true. I'm just pointing out that the only genetic evidence so far collected is not supportive.

Although frankly if there were ever interbreeding I'd doubt it would be with Neanderthal women. Can you imagine

Hubba Hubba.

The first time I saw it I thought it was strange yet slightly mesmerizing.

Read this
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargat ... ZANA1.html

I don't mind the sound of a motor-bike, but not for extended periods of time.

But often at home when I hear the "thump-thump" of someone playing loud-bass music in the neighbourhood, I hate that sound.

...Maybe a redundant survival mechanism for avoiding Woolly-Mammoth attacks !?

On the claim that Neanderthals were stupid:
Neanderthals were intelligent enough to create tools and clothing, could hunt and bring down larger animals including the Woolly-Mammoth, buried their dead, had a sense of "tribe" or "community", could communicate using spoken sounds and gestures, and would look after the sick, elderly and injured.

Remains of Homo Neanderthal / Homo Sapien Hybrids have been found in Europe, so interbreeding did take place. If fertile offspring were produced...

It would be more likely if Humans and Neanderthals have the same number of chromosomes (23) and share more genes / DNA sequences in identical locations, plus alleles, etc. I.E. the more in common genetically, the less likely Hybrid offspring would be sterile.

Because diagnostic criteria is based on problems and symptoms and not neurology. These symptoms can (and do) have different causes which means that not everybody that get diagnoses actually has the typical autistic genes.



Many parents are not diagnosed but still "have it". Not being diagnosed does not mean you are NT.



You cannot technically talk about a pure subspecies but rather a gradient from Aspie to NT. Although it is interesting to note from Aspie-quiz that the gradient doesn't seem to be a sliding bell-curve, but the superimposition of two different bell-curves for Aspie and NT.



I don't at least. Note that in the spider diagram in Aspie-quiz "IQ" (talent) is on both sides. The current IQ tests are constructed in such a way that they measure both sides and because many blacks lack the Aspie-side, their averages are lower. That doesn't mean they are dumber, it just means that the IQ test is flawed. Of course, IQ tests won't be any less flawed if you remove their loadings on the Aspie-side. What will happen is that the racial gap will become narrower while many more Aspies will be considered mentally ret*d.



See above. There is a connection between a smaller racial gap and lower IQ scores in the autistic population. This cannot be solved with a single IQ-test averaging both types of intelligence while also being fair between blacks and whites and NT and Aspies.



I've seen it posted there (through web-statistics) and I made them aware that the IQ differences where because of autistic genes and not white supremacy. They didn't exactly like that.

I don't think it can. Not if there are a few people pointing out that the "IQ gap" is there because of autistic genes. White supremacists won't suddenly start celebrating autism because most of these guys are NTs. The Bell Curve is an entirely different matter as it says nothing about the background.

Not only that, but mitochondrial disorders are thought to be connected to ASDs. This shows that mtDNA is not arbitrary and that there are co-evolution between mtDNA and nuclear DNA. It is easy to understand what this means in terms of phylogeny based on mtDNA. Phylogenies aren't reliable if there is selection on certain types. The higher occurence of mitochondrial disorders in ASDs can be caused by the loss of Hn mtDNA.

I really hate Ambulances

Yes. But they were still stupid. The Mousterian tool kit is considered much more primitive than the kind of stuff that is produced by H. sapiens.


Not clear at all. The issue is not settled, and I have read respectable sources which oppose the idea that interbreeding took place. The so-called hybrids you are talking about are entirely open to interpretation last I checked.