10 Mar 2014, 4:18 pm
littlebee wrote:
Quote:
KingdomofRats is the woman!
To me this would is a condescending comment. You mean a person cannot benefit from enquiry and just needs to be built up like saying all teenagers here are awesome? (I do not know as I do not read most messages from teenagers, I am sure most if not all of them have the potential to be awesome.). Praise is only effective, depending on the context and can even cripple people.
I think we all can benefit from enquiry.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure she's able to express her feelings without you reinterpreting them for her,....
Except I didn't interpret her feelings at all...I did imply other people may be soft-gloving in their responses....sometimes that might be helpful, but imo it could also and easily is in a lot of instances a form of enabling.
Quote:
but condescend away I've said my piece.
Good cop bad cop???---except I am not a cop:-) The implication of your 'protection' is that certain people are weak and cannot handle normal enquiry. Some can't. but I do not think this person is one of them. Putting certain people on a protective pedestal is like a man calling a woman a lady. Superficially it seems seems so nice (or at least it used to until women got hip), but is it really?
Thanks again for another great message.
yes you stated that both she and I were not as angry as we said we were, for some reason you think we are pretending (well that is if you didn't go back and delete it
)
As for the rest of your comment, I get that you don't get it because it doesn't' revolve around you (it's just fact, that's how your brain works). I'm pretty sure KingdomOfRats does get it though and will not think I am condescending to her (and that nobody is soft gloving her, that's just a game you like to play).
10 Mar 2014, 4:19 pm
littlebee wrote:
KingdomOfRats, it has occurred to me that some people may be afraid to communicate honestly with you because they do not want to hurt your feelings or cause a meltdown or whatever, and there is definitely an altruistic motivation behind that, but also it may be a form of enabling (meaning in the sense of the definition I have given here).
KingdomOfRats wrote:
I was not at all that knowledgeable about LFA when I cam here, meaning I barely knew of its existence, and did not understand much of anything about different kinds of autism, so it has been a learning experience. Personally I do not care who or what a person is as long as I can learn from the experience, and the experience I can learn the most from is the kind or quality of experience that to me would have the most personal value, so what I could learn from interacting with a person. It could be a so- called NT, a person with any kind of autism or even a person with down's syndrome. They all would be the same to me, though I will add that if the person understands much more than me (meaning not smarter, necessarily, though that, too, possibly) but actually understands more than I would value that interaction more, and have always been kind of, like a grateful little dog lapping at the feel of such people and have been and still am very, lucky to find so many. I am maybe going to write about this here someday.
Originally I came on here looking to communicate with anyone who can understand me, and I found that a lot of people here cannot, but I am used to that already. I also came here to learn about myself, as anything I do is from that angle, and also to learn about the laws of physics and biology as they pertain to human communication.
As you probably know, I admire your messages, as I have communicated this on more than one occasion. To me you are thinking from both ends of the stick in some way that indicates more active thinking and a more comprehensive processing of data than the average person here or anywhere, and I would like to encourage people to develop this quality and also which I woud like to develop it more in myself.
I think/feel I can understand where this is coming from, but to me it is way over-generalized and there are some particular problems for me with this kind of comment. I am running out of steam now, even though I have just begun, and because I want to write on some other threads, will continue this later so that all of my energy will not be used up responding to this. Actually maybe I should add a bit more so as not to leave anyone hanging. Personally I have a problem with always never words as they tend to hyperbole and can even miss the mark because of over-reaching of too big a scope, and also these kind of over-generalizations tend to arouse an emotional reaction where what is actually called for is an impartial stepping back, as this latter approach offers more of an opportunity for enquiry. Secondly I do not think most if even any people are wrapped up in the topic of thinking that LFA are feeling misery. I never have thought that, but even if someone does, I am not sure how significant it is.
To be continued.
KingdomOfRats wrote:
Quote:
verdandi was spot on.
if it isnt known already am low functioning autistic by traditional standards;intelectualy disabled and have experienced incredible prejudice, discrimination at the typing hands of elitists who think we are inferior autistics and don't belong here.
if it isnt known already am low functioning autistic by traditional standards;intelectualy disabled and have experienced incredible prejudice, discrimination at the typing hands of elitists who think we are inferior autistics and don't belong here.
I was not at all that knowledgeable about LFA when I cam here, meaning I barely knew of its existence, and did not understand much of anything about different kinds of autism, so it has been a learning experience. Personally I do not care who or what a person is as long as I can learn from the experience, and the experience I can learn the most from is the kind or quality of experience that to me would have the most personal value, so what I could learn from interacting with a person. It could be a so- called NT, a person with any kind of autism or even a person with down's syndrome. They all would be the same to me, though I will add that if the person understands much more than me (meaning not smarter, necessarily, though that, too, possibly) but actually understands more than I would value that interaction more, and have always been kind of, like a grateful little dog lapping at the feel of such people and have been and still am very, lucky to find so many. I am maybe going to write about this here someday.
Originally I came on here looking to communicate with anyone who can understand me, and I found that a lot of people here cannot, but I am used to that already. I also came here to learn about myself, as anything I do is from that angle, and also to learn about the laws of physics and biology as they pertain to human communication.
As you probably know, I admire your messages, as I have communicated this on more than one occasion. To me you are thinking from both ends of the stick in some way that indicates more active thinking and a more comprehensive processing of data than the average person here or anywhere, and I would like to encourage people to develop this quality and also which I woud like to develop it more in myself.
Quote:
whenever the cure topic comes up;the ignorant and elitists will always defend the rights of autistics to live as they want to live without a cure; but those of us who are 'low functioning' shoud be cured,the autistic community shoud be defending everyones right to live how they want and stop assuming we live lives of misery. 
I think/feel I can understand where this is coming from, but to me it is way over-generalized and there are some particular problems for me with this kind of comment. I am running out of steam now, even though I have just begun, and because I want to write on some other threads, will continue this later so that all of my energy will not be used up responding to this. Actually maybe I should add a bit more so as not to leave anyone hanging. Personally I have a problem with always never words as they tend to hyperbole and can even miss the mark because of over-reaching of too big a scope, and also these kind of over-generalizations tend to arouse an emotional reaction where what is actually called for is an impartial stepping back, as this latter approach offers more of an opportunity for enquiry. Secondly I do not think most if even any people are wrapped up in the topic of thinking that LFA are feeling misery. I never have thought that, but even if someone does, I am not sure how significant it is.
To be continued.
It is times like these were I wish I was able to comprehend your posts. But what i can get from it is it's highly insulting. ( especially the first paragraph)
Ok since you are unfamiliar with LFA here is some insight on how lower functioning people in general (somtimes even with other disabilities like Down syndrome) are treated and seen as by others.
People treat LF autistics as in feeling, incapable, incompetent, and Either treat it like a disease or like it doesn't exist.
In fact maybe low functioning autists are not treated like they have a disease . People with diseases are respected and not de humanized and treated like Their worthless and are not abused, discriminated , shunned blamed for their condition ect . Many autistics are treated as incompetent, pathetic and unable to do anything and even doing the smallest thing makes it seen as a miracle , dosnt believe them, are seen as faking or exaggerating, or is moved up to high functioning .
There lives are seen again as pathetic and a burden to others. Their thoughts and abilities are seen as unimportant at the least least down right impossible and they are incapable of thought and anything they do Is just gibberish,has no true meaning or that other people are thinking all these thoughts or doing the things for them at the worst.
Many think they are a waste of life and would be better off dead. That they are always unhappy and just wants/ would do anything to "End their suffering."
We are all human beings with feelings, strengths, weaknesses thoughts and dreams goals likes and dislikes ect and we deserve to be treated as such.
10 Mar 2014, 5:04 pm
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btbnnyr
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10 Mar 2014, 7:28 pm
Prof_Pretorius
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10 Mar 2014, 7:33 pm
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10 Mar 2014, 7:35 pm
Verdandi
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10 Mar 2014, 7:45 pm
littlebee wrote:
KingdomOfRats, it has occurred to me that some people may be afraid to communicate honestly with you because they do not want to hurt your feelings or cause a meltdown or whatever, and there is definitely an altruistic motivation behind that, but also it may be a form of enabling (meaning in the sense of the definition I have given here).
I have only ever communicated honestly on this forum - with you, with KingdomOfRats. The difference is one of respect - the more of your posts I read, the less respect I have for you.
This comment itself is extremely passive-aggressive and says literally nothing. You say people are enabling KingdomOfRats although you don't actually elaborate on how, and same with asserting that people are afraid to communicate honestly with her - your explanation is vague and nonspecific.
This sort of thing is why I say you are emotionally manipulative. That was not for your benefit (since, clearly, nothing will stop you short of banning), but rather for others'.
However, if you want it to be clearly stated, when I posted about how prejudice against "low-functioning" autistic people occurs on this forum, you were definitely on my list of those enacting it. Specifically your assertions that no one who is LFA could understand you or understand particular thread topics that adults who are already described as LFA were already participating in and understanding. I seem to recall you actually shifting the goalposts on definitions so that KingdomOfRats and possibly others wouldn't actually be described as "LFA" by your highly idiosyncratic definitions.
Quote:
I was not at all that knowledgeable about LFA when I cam here, meaning I barely knew of its existence, and did not understand much of anything about different kinds of autism, so it has been a learning experience. Personally I do not care who or what a person is as long as I can learn from the experience, and the experience I can learn the most from is the kind or quality of experience that to me would have the most personal value, so what I could learn from interacting with a person. It could be a so- called NT, a person with any kind of autism or even a person with down's syndrome. They all would be the same to me, though I will add that if the person understands much more than me (meaning not smarter, necessarily, though that, too, possibly) but actually understands more than I would value that interaction more, and have always been kind of, like a grateful little dog lapping at the feel of such people and have been and still am very, lucky to find so many. I am maybe going to write about this here someday.
You do not care who or what a person is as long as you can assert that certain varieties of person are completely incapable of understanding a topic you're responding to or one you've started. Your paragraph here is inconsistent with your statements in other threads.
Quote:
Originally I came on here looking to communicate with anyone who can understand me, and I found that a lot of people here cannot, but I am used to that already. I also came here to learn about myself, as anything I do is from that angle, and also to learn about the laws of physics and biology as they pertain to human communication.
Many people here do understand you, even if your idiosyncratic use of words and phrases like "enabling," "harmful to humanity" etc. are primarily emotional and manipulative and lack a solid, consistent definition.
Quote:
As you probably know, I admire your messages, as I have communicated this on more than one occasion. To me you are thinking from both ends of the stick in some way that indicates more active thinking and a more comprehensive processing of data than the average person here or anywhere, and I would like to encourage people to develop this quality and also which I woud like to develop it more in myself.
Now explain how this coincides with your
Quote:
Quote:
whenever the cure topic comes up;the ignorant and elitists will always defend the rights of autistics to live as they want to live without a cure; but those of us who are 'low functioning' shoud be cured,the autistic community shoud be defending everyones right to live how they want and stop assuming we live lives of misery.
I think/feel I can understand where this is coming from, but to me it is way over-generalized and there are some particular problems for me with this kind of comment.
In the three years and three months since I joined this forum I have seen what KingdomOfRats described happen on numerous occasions, on this forum and on the Autism Politics, Activism, and Media Representation forum - most often the latter. KingdomOfRats is not exaggerating and is not overgeneralizing. She is describing specific circumstances that have occurred on numerous occasions. I recall on one recent thread in response to someone asserting that cures are wrong, but all "low functioning" autistic people should have a cure because they're incapable of communication or any kind of thinking, and I had to actually track down Carly Fleischmann's actual argument as to why she personally wants a cure to show this guy that he doesn't need to tokenize so-called "low-functioning" autistic people to make his point, that they are real people with real opinions and many are capable of communicating them (never mind the entire notion that communication impairment somehow makes someone less of a person - an endemic attitude on this forum from many higher functioning individuals).
Quote:
I am running out of steam now, even though I have just begun, and because I want to write on some other threads, will continue this later so that all of my energy will not be used up responding to this. Actually maybe I should add a bit more so as not to leave anyone hanging. Personally I have a problem with always never words as they tend to hyperbole and can even miss the mark because of over-reaching of too big a scope, and also these kind of over-generalizations tend to arouse an emotional reaction where what is actually called for is an impartial stepping back, as this latter approach offers more of an opportunity for enquiry. Secondly I do not think most if even any people are wrapped up in the topic of thinking that LFA are feeling misery. I never have thought that, but even if someone does, I am not sure how significant it is.
You are full of s**t. And you're trying to control how KingdomOfRats talks about real stuff that has happened on this forum, quite probably things that have been specifically done to her or in response to things she's said. She said what she meant, and what she meant is something that has been observed here by others as well. You can track them down with the forum search function if you want. You are turning a concrete statement about real events that KingdomOfRats posted and trying to turn it into an abstract generalization. AGAIN emotionally manipulative and in this case tremendously invalidating, just as your opening paragraph was.
Verdandi
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10 Mar 2014, 7:55 pm
littlebee wrote:
Quote:
whenever the cure topic comes up;the ignorant and elitists will always defend the rights of autistics to live as they want to live without a cure; but those of us who are 'low functioning' shoud be cured,the autistic community shoud be defending everyones right to live how they want and stop assuming we live lives of misery.
I think/feel I can understand where this is coming from, but to me it is way over-generalized and there are some particular problems for me with this kind of comment.
...
Personally I have a problem with always never words as they tend to hyperbole and can even miss the mark because of over-reaching of too big a scope, and also these kind of over-generalizations tend to arouse an emotional reaction where what is actually called for is an impartial stepping back, as this latter approach offers more of an opportunity for enquiry. Secondly I do not think most if even any people are wrapped up in the topic of thinking that LFA are feeling misery. I never have thought that, but even if someone does, I am not sure how significant it is.
Here are some of those ~overgeneralized threads that you say do not really happen:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt202260.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5193930.html#5193930
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postx221403-15-0.html
Oh, and we should not forget the thread where you said low functioning autism was inferior to high functioning autism:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postx246688-180-0.html (esp. the comparison of LFA to lice-infested homeless person).
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10 Mar 2014, 8:12 pm
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10 Mar 2014, 8:14 pm
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10 Mar 2014, 9:28 pm
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