Aspie Nation,If we build it will they come?

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AgentPalpatine---I don't like arguing. And I definitely realize NTs do it too. But it is sad the disrespect I find in our AS community here at the WP among a certain small group. I am not saying we AS should not argue---I am just saying that it should be done with respect rather than with the insults and bashing. There is no excuse for poor behavior. And I have seen a lot of it on the WP lately.

I really don't think that an 'commune' for people with Aspergers would work at all, for the following reasons:

1) Look at the track record for separatist/isolationist communities, other then the nudist/naturalist community, I can't think of very many non-religious separatist movements that have been very successful. The ones that have long term success invariably have a strong unifying philosophy that it's members are so dedicated to, they are willing to isolate themselves from society. This is why most separatists are members of strict religious communities, such as the fundamentalist LDS groups, the Amish, and the Quiverful movement here in the US. Their dedication to their religious faith allows them to build a strong community and overcome the isolation that results from removing themselves from society at large.

2) This is an expansion of the last point; if we did build a community for autistics/aspergers, what would be our unifying community goal? Would it be to have a town where body language communication is almost non-existent, eye contact is not necessary, a place where the average coffee shop discussion is about the extreme details of topic X, and the occasional body odor or brutal lack of fashion is socially acceptable? Obviously not, but still, what I am trying to ask is what would be the 'stuff' that binds us together. Call me a cynic, but I seriously doubt that the simple fact that we're all slightly autistic would actually work. Max Weber and Emile Durkhiem both stressed the absolute importance of having a strong communal bond if any group is to be successful in the long run. What would our's be, and how would we pass it onto the next generation after we die?

3) The Problems that I pointed out in the last two ultimately lead to this: People on the autistic spectrum vary greatly. I'm not just talking about levels of functionality and independence here. I'm referring to the fact that we are like a giant pride of cats, we all differ greatly in our obsessions, our habits, and our outlooks on life. For example while I may be ultra-obsessed with Sociology and it's related fields, Jake over here is very interested in Physics and Chemistry, and I personally don't want to be blasted with a ton of formulas, much as he probably would not want to hear about all the different social theorists. Every person I have ever met that has the slightest traces of autism has been a highly unique individual in their own right, and I strongly suspect that most professionals would agree with me on that. The only commonality that we do have is that we all generally have issues with communication, human relationships, and a few other assorted behavioral, traits that set us apart from most human beings. Aside from this, we are all very different persons. While many of us do have a strong knack for science, and take a skeptical/analytical view of the world, it is definitely not the case for all.

4) My last point is not exactly related to the others, but it is more a general issue that I can't get past: what would be the actual point in doing something like this? I understand that being a social alien is hard at times, but would separating yourself from the neurotypical world really bring any kind of closure to that problem? Personally, the idea of being surrounded by other people with aspergers 24/7 sounds rather dull, for me at least. Not to offend anyone here, but other then online communication on sites like WP, I really don't enjoy the company of other people with any form of autism very much. I like having occasional group discussions and as I said, sites like this rock, but for my everyday social interactions I prefer to be contact with people who are different from myself. When I was younger, and constantly harassed and belittled for being different I might have felt differently, but as I've become an adult I've come to accept myself for who I am, and I try to make the best of it. Some people may never fully understand me, but I can live with that.

So what about the hypothetical 45-year-old man who until the community was established, lived with his mother and will only eat the food she makes. In fact, the only reason he joined the community, was because he was mad at his mommy for canceling HBO. He's never had a job, and has no skills.
What would he bring to "Aspie Nation"?

I don't want an aspie nation just like I don't want an aryan nation nor do I want african nation nor do I want christian nation nor do I want muslim nation nor do I want rap nation nor do I want goth nation nor do I want latino nation nor do I want jewish nation nor do I want asian nation nor do I want metal nation nor do I want classical nation nor do I want golfer nation...

I just want a world where people who are just minding their business trying to live their lives without hurting others can be themselves. I want to be me in peace.

I want to move to an island where the surf is always pumping, the weather is always warm and dry, a 1 hour massage costs $3, the people have a wonderful appreciation for art and music, adulthood initiation sometimes takes the form of magic mushrooms and hypnotic gamalon music, tropical fruits and fish are plentiful and cheap, and plane loads of Swedish tourist land every other day

Oh wait, thats Bali!

There will be no Aspie Nation. Two reasons:

1. Not enough of us
2. We don't have our own territory.

We will always live within the NT hive. I think of it this way: I am IN the Hive but not OF the hive.

ruveyn

I respectfully request the indulgence of everyone with such excellent responces as I answer in one reply.

Rjgarn,

Of course who you wish to socially interact with is your own busness. I don't see how an aspie community would change that in anyway, if 99.5 percent or so of the people outside of the community are NT.

Is it somehow wrong to "have a town where body language communication is almost non-existent, eye contact is not necessary, a place where the average coffee shop discussion is about the extreme details of topic X, and the occasional body odor or brutal lack of fashion is socially acceptable"?

I'd personally enjoy not haveing to constantly figure out how much eye contact to display to various individuals based on status, task, gender, etc. etc. I'd also enjoy being able to go to coffee shops where I can hold an intellegent conversation and not be looked at like a social leper. As for body odor and "brutal lack of fashion", how is that any different than walking the streets of any decent sized "NT" city?

FireMinstrel,

I would respectfully suggest that we ask the question with a slightly different set of facts. What about a 45 year old individual who is forced to live with his friends (if any) and family, since they cannot keep down a job in an era of almost 20 percent U6 unemployement? I would direct our attention to any number of depressing stories on WP of those not lucky enough to find a tolerent workplace, and to be constantly driven from job to job, if the individual is lucky enough to get in the door in the first place.

What is the current US entry-level employement track for someone without (or with) a college-level degree? Retail or low-level clerical positions? The trade positions are down due to the lack of construction jobs, and often require an extensive apprecienceship period or capital investment, which might not be available due to the hiring process being non-Aspie friendly.

Flyingkittycat,

I'm not sure if I should read some sort of implication of bigotry into your post, particularly with the first comparision you made. I respectfully request a clarification of your comment.

In any event, how does an aspie community prevent you personally from living in peace?

Surfman,

I'm not sure how to read your response.

Ruveyn,

You describe the "NT" world as a "Hive", but you would not be interested in some sort of community outside or co-located with the "Hive"? As previously noted in this thread, with an estimated 1.5-3 Million Aspies in the United States alone, I'm sure there are enough to found a village somewhere.

In general,
As I believe I have noted before, I would have prefered to rename this thread since "nation" brings up associations of soverign states with extensive territories. I am attempting to discuss an Aspie community.

I kind of just caught that response you made on my post. Can you imagine how interesting this could be? I think about a project that never was the way the creator imagined---Walt Disney. The project was the original concept for EPCOT in Florida. Disney envisioned a prototype city of tomorrow with real people working real jobs and living within the confines of the experimental city. Tourists would be able to see how these families lived in this prototype community that was complete with a wonderful shopping center, towering hotel, and amusement park. Disney's idea died with him, and the business heads of the Disney corporation made EPCOT into the park it is today---nothing like Walt had imagined and designed.

So...maybe this idea could work after all. If we could debate without insult in this community, I might be willing to give it a try---provided there is a great roller coaster---there must be a great roller coaster .

Well, in the functionalist sense, yes I do think it would be a problem, a very serious problem at that. That example was just a strawman that I constructed, but my real point, again, is that I don't think it would be possible to build a harmonious communal bond just off of that fact that it [the community] would consist of people with similar behavioral traits. While it's certainty possible to build a community that has features like that, you would have to have a deeper bonding factor in order for it to be sustainable in the long run.

In the mid 1800's and more recently in the 60's, there were countless movements that attempted to form their own communal utopias, usually based around some kind of socialist or feminist system. However almost all of them ended in failure because of internal strife that eventually tore their memberships apart. The ones that made it were able to build a social hub that emphasized strong unity around a particular concept or idea. Incidentally this concept is usually something that mainstream society considers taboo, further strengthening the members commitment (Nudists and Polygamists all the way !).

I'm not sure a "taboo" is required, only a sense of alienation from "mainstream society". Given the fact that we are posting on a site called "WrongPlanet", I'd say we have our sense of alienation. Your milage may vary, you've previously mentioned that you don't enjoy to associate with individuals with autism, so you personally may not feel alienated.

Glider18, I'd like to think that I learned something from my studies of Walt Disney. I don't think the first aspie community will have the giant roller coaster, perhaps the first aspie amusement park.

I don't want a giant roller coaster---I want a great roller coaster. I prefer the medium size wooden coasters from the 1920s. I actually have the one and only blueprint (original linen cloth paper design done by the designer) of an intense wooden coaster that was never built. That coaster belongs to me now. And I am moving closer to the completion of an HO scale model of this coaster. I have named it the Spiral Dips. The blueprint has it dated April 12, 1928. If the Aspie community has an amusement park, it will no doubt have a roller coaster---and I have the coaster . It is in the style of the Crystal Beach Cyclone. Anyone want to build it?

I have definitely felt some alienation, and I still do in some ways, but I would say that I just feel more content now then I did in the past. To elaborate on my previous post: I'm not fond of friendships with other autistics to be precise, my mother does work with high & low functioning autistic adults, and I've had plenty of friendly interactions with several people with aspergers over the years. But the reason why I have a hard time developing a close friendship with any of them is because I just feel that the majority (but by no means all) of them do nothing whatsoever to try and push themselves beyond their current state of limitations. Yes, I am socially inept, and I struggle greatly with several areas of my human relationships, but I can't stand the thought of doing nothing to try to improve myself. To address this I constantly challenge myself, and I am always trying to learn manually what nature didn't teach me.

Because of this attitude, I'm kind of an elitist in how I view people that do nothing to try and transcend whatever hole they find themselves hurled into by life, so that is kind of why I have a hard time when I'm with the company of most autistics. I learned at young age that the world doesn't care about me as person in the slightest. It doesn't matter that I have some extreme developmental differences from the majority of the human race, I (and everyone else here on WP for that matter) am held to the same bland standard as the rest of humanity, people just don't care, and neither do any of the social institutions for that matter. I have no doubts that there are others out there like myself who take a similar approach, and indeed, I've noticed quite a few on here, but somehow I kind of get the impression that I may be in a minority.

Ah well, as my one of my professors told me: "There is nothing wrong with being an elitist ass, it's actually quite surprising how easy it makes life at times!"

Rjgarn,

As a student of sociology, what are your thoughts on individuals who have, regretfully, been taught failure? The above example of a 35-year old who has been shut out of the work force, a young adult who has never been shown the value of connections in an unstable job market, those suffering from social exclusion?

Lets make a short summary:

What do people with aspie have in common?

WE are very, very good in the job we love. We are perfect workers, we never late at work, we never break rules we do everything in the best way it should be.”WE” right?;-). So why we should live together with people who hate us? With parents who beats us because we don’t want to go out in the evening and yells at us that we don’t have friends? Who have this wonderful rule that everyone should live in active society way and who doesn’t live these way is a freak and idiot and must be cured by heavy drugs ? Who say that it doesn’t matter what is insight of the man|girl but its more important how does he|she look like.? The “list” can be continued of course.

WE really don’t want to live in the world where all ppl all the time smiles at us. WE want to live alone and freedom. WE have Reason.

Where find money to build our own country?
All multinational companies like Sony or Siemens will support us because (I will start list,we really like lists ok?)
─ aspie usually great in the job they like. Imagine how much Sony will have from its techlab located in our country which has only aspies personal. Personal which can not live (in real) without there job.
─ aspies (who have money which they gain from there beloved jobs) will all spend it for bying best tech stuff for there home| hobby is possible. They will buy best and MOST EXPENSIVE and large TVs,computers,sofas, BIG(with extra armour)) cars and etc.
All nations and countries will help us because.
─ WE will help them to get rid from the aspies. It simple: a lot of aspies doesn’t have jobs and live miserable life. A lot of aspies are drug addicted and alcoholic. A lot off aspies because of that start doing criminal. The Reason is─ that all nations and countries forced them to live in socium in there childhood.
Yes, it will work. Jews created there country for several years so why not?
Imagine the Country which will have aspie oriented education and medical system and it will GIVE THE WORLD best engineers, best doctors, best economists, best snipers
What about citizenship?
Only people with aspie and autism can have it. Down syndrome people should have there own wonderland. Autism neuro condition must be proved by our medical doctors at the border. Children of the aspie people who have not aspie or autism can not have citizenship and must be parented by ordinary neuro people in the age of 4. Just imagine what it would be for neuro ordinary kid in the Aspie Country? Its sad but we must think about his future too.
What abot political system?
Well it seems to me that we should look at everything best in mononationality countries like Israel, Japan, Belorus (not kidding) and etc. BUT it must be Open Democrasity. WE really don’t want to be isolated country with some kind off monarchy or this stuff. UN loves democrasity. It will help us.
What about religion?
Prohibited. Simple thing here. You belive in God in muslim or christian way? No problem but you must prey and do everything about it at your home. There must be no churches ot mosques ent etc. Yon also can not were any religion related clothes in open public(amulets and whatever)
What about national differences ,culture and ets?
Well it’s the most important question. Our destiny is to create a new nation of new people. The final goal of human evolution ─ Homo Sapiens “Aspergers Edition”
Showing in open national traditions will be prohibited. No china towns and etc. WE must create our own culture ─ best from everything.
BTW what about China ?
Yes there are more aspie people who have China and India nationality because these countries are most human populated. We must think about limits for nations in the first years of growing of the country so it will no be new asia country.
What about Eugenics?
If we are creating new nation we must think about making it healthy and better. Positive Eugenics will help us rise faster. we will not kill human newborns , no we promise:─)
What about laws?
It will be very strict laws for criminal against human, like murder, robbery etc. Maniacs, rapests, drug dealers and all this scum will seat on electrical chair. Our national security system and police must be best in the world. And it will be, and WE know why.
Dude, what about weed ,gambling and hookers?
Alcohol, nicotine, heroine are in one list and prohibited. Drug addicted people will be cured by force. Drug dealers executed. You will go to prison for 15 days for being drunk no matter at home or not.(only 1 human cell in prisons of course)
MJ and Shrooms will be legal BUT WE will create system which will help to control it using by aspies.
Same thing goes for prostitutes. We need them))
We will create gambling zone with our own Vegas .
Tourist money will help US in first several years so we will not suffer.

Ok, what now?
WE should start to unite. WE must start to find aspies who live not above from us and create an aspie safeplaces. WE must help each other. Internet will be our main instrument in that.
Maybe we have aspie president someplace who will help us to create country of Anonymous :─)

I mean how long are we going to put up with the blatant discrimination? Discrimination at school were geniuses like Einstein are given mediocre C grades and cannot get into the good colleges. Discrimination at work where even if Autistics are hired they are given lowly positions that are far below their capabilities if not outright fired from the workplace. How long are we going to be at the mercy of neurotypicals who only judge us by our weaknesses and if we demand that our strengths be taken in to consideration we are immediately denounced as supremacists who do not believe that all men are created equal ? And neurotypicals claim that Autistics have no social skills that allows them get along with other people? Then how come neurotypical people ruthlessly persecute Autistics and make life for them a living hell? Is persecuting weaker people showing good social skills? It is only because it is socially acceptable to treat autistic people like garbage that neurotypicals can get away with it.

androbot2084 maybe because neurotypical somehow deep in there minds understand that WE are the future not them? There are afraid of us.