Emotion Management - Info from Attwood conference

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Getting back to the OP, CBT seems to bring out the same mix of reactions in adults as Scientology.

Since this was posted in General Autism, not the Parents Forum, where I would have never seen it, and they are more possibly NT parents who might make something of it. They are the front line troops who will tell you soon enough if something works or not.

Here in General I expect a full range of views, adult outcomes from CBT, Scientology, or Heroin.

When disappointment comes from the views of old lab rats, yet you still want to try something old, Korean War Era, on the young, why was the opinion of old lab rats being asked for?

What would you expect, "That is so wonderful of you Helen."

Here you get the down and dirty, clear and honest answers. They run from "It works!" to "Some of it works." to "It is something to do after being drugged," to "It does not work, because emotions cannot be controlled, only suppressed, and that is not healthy." to "Pavlov is not an accepted method of treating anything." to "I was a dupe of the Capitalist Warmongers, now I want to work with the People's Democratic, Socialist Republic. Please let me farm rice for you."

There are several obvious truths. First, nothing works, but here we are. I have had a few friends that spent time in the funny farm. They told me how it was, when someone wants out, they first act up, bring themselves some attention, and then whatever therapy is tried on them, It works wonderfully, they make great progress, and thank everyone for helping them put their life back together. They smile and shake hands, make eye contact, they know this stuff better than Danielismyname knows the DSM.

Within two weeks they were released, and came by my house. Nobody does standup comedy like the nut house, they have little else to do, and lots to work with.

It did not matter what you were in for, the way out was the same. Personal grooming, being attentive, smiling, making eye contact, and telling staff how much they had helped you. A half hour act before a shrink, and you got walking papers. They ran rehersals in the ward.

I had been involved with a Social outreach program, and was known. They thought I was strange, because they liked me, I invited nut cases over to my house for coffee, and they thought I was one of them, that I belonged in the nut house. It was a compliment.

It was the 70's, long before AS. They were highly intelligent, well read, sharp, and had a great sense that everything is humorous.

If it was not in people, no one would have ever gotten out. Almost everyone got out.

So people are great actors.

I do not think anyone is smart enough to know their own mind, much less that of another. I think that was the first time I ran into Theory of Mind. They told me word for word how to do the exit interview. They knew how the Shrink's mind worked, and told him what would cause him to function. The dumbest person in the nut house is smarter than the system.

I asked what really helped and was told just talking, they had university psych majors to play with, it was three Doctor Lectors playing bridge with Cairese. They figured her out quickly, and were very good card cheats. They let her win.

They had never had models of sane people to play with. So that is where they learned to mimic sanity.
Functional sanity is an act. I was a prize for I was a member of the Club yet lived in the world, a great model.

The main problem with Autism is we do not act, we just are, raw human, and that is a scary beast.

My main problem growing up was I did not get it, and no one told me how. I needed to be talked to more, and at a more mature level, this is how it is with people, and this is how to act, so they do not notice you. I got talked to less, yelled at, and any answer was challanged. I was told everything I said was wrong, and "shut up" was the main reply to any question. I became mute. This caused more problems for me. Things that do not speak are hit.

Oh, Inventor, I am so disappointed in you!" It is another way of saying "Shut Up."

This is so standard that people are not aware they do it. I am an Autistic, expressing my opinion on an Autistic site. Here comes and NT to cut me down in public. Going to put me in my Tard place?

The main thing about any therapy is the personal contact, with someone who will not hit you or tell you to shut up. Ouinon spots the verbal manipulation used, do as I say or you are chosing to be a victim.
If it comes down to being your victim or mine, I like being alone.

The working part, as expressed by krex, is it was a way out of where she was, and time to change. She did not mention the Scientology voice control that Ouinon did. Someone talked to her, like she could be a people, and she became more people like.

krex and I had something of the same childhood, you are wrong, shut up.

What the Autistic child needs is obvious, we miss all the social stuff. It has been told here by untrained NT parents, who were short and had bad hair, that talking to their child, getting no or little response, but continuing, got a response, and the child had heard every word. When they explained the unwritten rules, the child caught on. We may be blind to it, but we are not dumb. We will do what works best.

So the main factor I see is treating the child like it was human, and drawing it out. It works on older people, explain what you mean, answer questions, and avoid demeaning speach, stopping the flow, or hitting the child.

I can tell when someone wants to hit me by the way they speak.

No matter what Autism Speaks says, most of us grow up. There we often become the working poor, because we did not get the support any child deserves, and we did get a lot of abuse from many directions.

Even after we become working adults, the abuse continues. At 61 posting on Wrong Planet the abuse continues, for some reason perfectly normal people wish to cause us harm, pain, and tear down everything we have. The world is not enough for them, they come to Wrong Planet for Tard Bashing.

It is displaced anger and agression, at an ex, a family member, but it gets delivered here.

If this happens to strangers on the Internet, it is happening to the children. They are told they are a disappointment.

We do become adults, some of us do well, they report better parents mostly, and with some, it was a drive to get out of hell.

Autism is like an engine, everthing it there, it just won't start and run. Most do start, if late, speak, learn, go to school, become adults.

Parents telling a child to shut up, stop the engine. Their personal frustration with their life overcomes their duty to the child. For a slow starting child it does not take much to stop the starting, or to tell the child it is hopeless, defective, ret*d, worthless, and worse. Children hear everything said, can read tone of voice, and feel unwanted. Not much motivation there.

Next comes sending the child to therapy. Further proof it is their fault, then drugs, and the continual disapproval of parents and teachers, that the other children pick up on.

I think the parents and teachers need therapy.

There is nothing to blame on the child. Slow to start is not a crime, it is in the normal range of childhood, so we are on the slow end, but no one trips early walkers.

Even after starting, going to school, making good grades, staying out of trouble, we are singled out by adults for abuse. I had a rough family life, my teachers were much worse.

Strangers have attacked me on the street! These NT are a pack of mad dogs! I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees, and they soon changed their tune.

I thought it was bad in the old days, but there is a thread about a kindergarten teacher holding a class election and voting a five year old aspie out of class. She turned her pack loose on him, just like my teachers did fifty years ago.

So it is parents, our mothers, our teachers, our classmates, and all through our adult years.

Much less the mating game where they claim attraction, spend years, then try to destroy us, because we do not look like Fabio, ride a white stallion, and live to bring them flowers. Then they go tell everyone how bad we are, but they never complained till after they cleaned out the bank account, maxed the credit cards, and left in the new car.

Social Avoident? You bet!

On my own I have supported theives and liers. I also made a bit for myself. I am an economically functional person, but keep to myself, because I want to keep what I have. Nothing has changed, the world still sees me as something to step on.

We do outgrow Autism, but not the damage done by parents, teachers, and social manipulation.

Tony Attwood is selling a package of let's blame the childern, which fits with what the parents want to hear. Adult Autistocs are avoided, for their parents will not spend money, and they are poor.

He has no Science, and he is selling treatments that do not consider the child growing into an adult.

Autistics can be frozen at a stage of development. We call it Autism. He is making money by blocking normal, for us at least, development, and we don't get do overs in this game.

The point is not to become a defective NT, there are plenty of those, but to become the best Autistic you can.

I do not think non-Autistic people can make better Autistic people by retarding their development.

Perhaps some are crippled for life by Autism, institutions, more are crippled and walking wounded from our social system.

Even those who get through are still hounded. Here where Autistics gather, a constant stream of trolls, an NT colony that feels they should direct, for they are NT.

I do not mind the parents, family, who come to learn. They are trying to do right. They are the only group, besides us, who are concerned with adult outcome.

As krex points out, Science is where you look at final results, adult outcomes.

Doctors who used ice water baths, electro shock, and Thorazine reported great results.

Inventor,

Thank you for your posts, although initially I didn't relate to them because my childhood experience was very different than yours. I experienced much instability growing up, because my father couldn't hold a job for nearly a decade, but my parents reinforced many positive things. I was rather in my own world exploring my surrounding, but my parents thought that was wonderful because I was so inquisitive. I had difficulty learning different things, but they encouraged me to work at what I excelled. We weren't poor, we just didn't have any money.

In second grade I had a teacher who couldn't stand me, and a principal who told my father "I don't like your son because he's just like you." After that I attended small Christian schools where my parents taught, and then a public school, and all along I was bullied and somewhat ostracized. In 9th grade I realized I was treated badly because of how I acted and afterward became skilled at acting "normal." I've followed my interests and found a way to support myself. Recently I confided to a former employer that I might have AS and was told, "Don't say that to anyone because no one can tell - fake it."

Because I knew I had the love and support of my parents and was somewhat protected in our close-knit family, I didn't have an external label that something was "wrong" with me. I did know that there was something very different about my family and myself. I didn't understand that I might be differently wired until I was 39.

I too tend to read more technical things, am not interested in sports, and keep to myself quite a bit. But I don't attribute aloneness to being treated badly by others anymore, at least not directly. I need time to refill my tank and to work on my interests.

I've found some understanding people out there and that is great for me. My main reasons to be on WP and to read up on the Autism Spectrum are to understand and to find ways to cope, because being able to act does not make me any less anxious, some times acting makes anxiety worse. I'd love to stop acting, but at this point I can't and still make a living.

Our perspectives are different because our experiences have been so different. However, I totally agree with you: "The point is not to become a defective NT, there are plenty of those, but to become the best Autistic you can."

Z

"Do not go by revelation or tradition, do not go by rumour, or the sacred scriptures, do not go by hearsay or mere logic, do not go by bias towards a notion or by another person's seeming ability and do not go by the idea 'He is our teacher'. But when you yourself know that a thing is good, that it is not blameable, that it is praised by the wise and when practised and observed that it leads to happiness, then follow that thing."

Thank you Helen for bringing this information to us (and by "us" I mean everyone on WP regardless of their neural architecture) so we can inquire into it, question and examine it for ourselves, and come to conclusions based on our own experiences.

And a big WORD! to whoever said, "Don't knock it till you've tried it".