Fictional characters with AS
Also, someone mentioned the Joker from The Dark Knight but it sort of got buried between posts. I'd have to aggree that on some level, his thinking is very aspie-like. He feels no connection to people and perhaps is willing to kill for fun because he lacks some theory of mind. I remember a time in my childhood when I was obsessed with making booby traps to the extent that people got hurt (no seriously, I had some sense of responsibility) but all I could think of was how well the trap worked and how cool it looked. This is sort of how I imagine the Joker thinks.
Joker seems to have a "theory of mind" (perhaps a werong theory, but a theory nevertheless) - his actions are nothing more than a giant psychological expriment.
Iron Man? Joker? Can't say either resemble the idea in the least. It doesn't appear to be much more that a tossing of the popular character of the week into the mix. No dice.
But come on people, I looked through the thread, and I don't see even one mention of who is perhaps the most important autistic individual of all time. Many of these characters owe him for their very existence.
I'm talking about Tommy Westphall.
and every time you watch television, you are looking into his imagination.
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kwgow/crossovers.html
I have another theory about fictional characters with AS...(an archetypal theory). I´ve been wondering about this for a long time, that´s why I thought I´d post it here.
First off, does anybody notice how many of us relate to characters like Spock and Data? This, due to their logical ways, mostly. Also: do any other science fiction fans out there notice- as do I- the very common theme, which comes up over and over again, of the "logical" creature trying to take over, and rule the world? In the 70´s, this fear was often portrayed as the humanoid-computer trying to take over the power of humans: (or sometimes it was illustrated as whole societies that were "evil", which were based on logic, no emotion, and the humans were watched over very carefully). It seems like there´s a whole history of evil androids, robots, extraterrestrials and other "logical" creatures that try to "take over"- (I believe that someone on this thread even mentioned "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"). As this theme comes up again and again, it seems, to me, to be illustrating a very important psychological fear. It´s almost as if the thing that´s being "threatened" by these so-called "logical" humanoids are those very things that people ( NTs?) use to define themselves. It seems that in our society, most people separate emotion from logic, believing them to work against each other- (something which I always thought was odd, but hey). So, with this thinking in mind, the humans fight doggedly against the "rational", desperately trying to keep their "emotion", and that which they feel makes them "human". (Okay, Spock and Data are basically more harmless versions of this same archetype; notice however, how neither of them run the show. The Starship Enterprise is commanded by the more "neurotypical" Capt. Kirk).
As this theme seems to illustrate some dark, indefinable psychological fear; could this be a reason for the fear against people with autism? Could it be the reason for the "cure-at-all-costs" mentally that some people seem to have? Could this be the reason why some use words like "lacking in empathy and imagination"?
I don´t mean to pit anyone against each other here, I realize I´m talking about archetypes, symbols, patterns, etc., and making some generalizations. I guess, like always, I´m trying to understand the "rest of the world", and maybe am not doing a very good job of it. It´s just that I find it interesting that that theme comes up so often.
Any thoughts???
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kornchild
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I said this in the tv/movies section, but it bears repeating. Basically I firmly believe that Jirarudan from the second Pokémon movie (the Collector with the airship and the fixation on Lugia) is somewhere on the spectrum. Here's my points (copied from the other thread. Of course there're going to be spoilers, but the movie's almost ten years old in Japan).
-He's driven by his obsessions to the point of shutting out everything else around him
-He talks all the time, in very odd ways (he's almost narrating his own actions at some points), but only speaks to a human once...
-...and when he does, she's screaming at him, obviously furious, and he replies to her words alone, the tone seeming to go completely over his head
-He seems to have very little empathy or understanding of other creatures
-He has a rigid adherence to what he deems to be obvious rules and expects others to follow them to the letter (it doesn't even occur to him that letting the kids out of the cage would be a Bad Idea, because it's unthinkable to him that they would be so rude as to damage anything in his gallery...a mistake that costs him everything)
-He's disturbingly smart (we get that he's intelligent from the movie, but a sketch sheet used in production identifies him as having "frightening scientific knowledge")
-He has sensory issues (This is just a theory, but that outfit...in tropical islands...in the middle of summer...and according to that same sketch, he wears a long-sleeved shirt under it)
-He has an inability to connect with the world outside his ship (this is more obvious in his image song, but basically it comes down to that that's his world and nothing else matters to him but his collection, his ship, and his disconnection from society)
-He interprets the legend literally without considering that it may have alternate meanings, which is pretty much what gets him in the whole mess in the first place.
Of course, his level of delusion goes beyond autism, but it's certainly very strongly there.
richie
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Anyone remember Aaron Pratt? A higher functioning autie on a CSI episode that involved the poisoning of a co-worker with ricin.
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DJRnold
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First off, does anybody notice how many of us relate to characters like Spock and Data? This, due to their logical ways, mostly. Also: do any other science fiction fans out there notice- as do I- the very common theme, which comes up over and over again, of the "logical" creature trying to take over, and rule the world? In the 70´s, this fear was often portrayed as the humanoid-computer trying to take over the power of humans: (or sometimes it was illustrated as whole societies that were "evil", which were based on logic, no emotion, and the humans were watched over very carefully). It seems like there´s a whole history of evil androids, robots, extraterrestrials and other "logical" creatures that try to "take over"- (I believe that someone on this thread even mentioned "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"). As this theme comes up again and again, it seems, to me, to be illustrating a very important psychological fear. It´s almost as if the thing that´s being "threatened" by these so-called "logical" humanoids are those very things that people ( NTs?) use to define themselves. It seems that in our society, most people separate emotion from logic, believing them to work against each other- (something which I always thought was odd, but hey). So, with this thinking in mind, the humans fight doggedly against the "rational", desperately trying to keep their "emotion", and that which they feel makes them "human". (Okay, Spock and Data are basically more harmless versions of this same archetype; notice however, how neither of them run the show. The Starship Enterprise is commanded by the more "neurotypical" Capt. Kirk).
As this theme seems to illustrate some dark, indefinable psychological fear; could this be a reason for the fear against people with autism? Could it be the reason for the "cure-at-all-costs" mentally that some people seem to have? Could this be the reason why some use words like "lacking in empathy and imagination"?
I don´t mean to pit anyone against each other here, I realize I´m talking about archetypes, symbols, patterns, etc., and making some generalizations. I guess, like always, I´m trying to understand the "rest of the world", and maybe am not doing a very good job of it. It´s just that I find it interesting that that theme comes up so often.
Any thoughts???
i never really watched the original star trek, but i did watch the next generation religiously in high school, and i very much identified with the character of data.....i also remember that there were several episodes in which the storylines served to explore the nature of "emotional humanity" for lack of a better term, and more specifically the emotional humanity of data as it developed. it would seem that what was being inferred in the show was that emotional intelligence was a natural "symptom" of being alive and self-aware--of being sentient. that emotional humanity develops as logical understanding develops, and that logical understanding facilitates this humanity, rather than conflicting with it or inhibiting it in any way. that NT view of logic as the opposite of emotion never made any sense to me at all. not to be ironic, but does it not appeal to logic that a better understanding of a situation, and most especially of another person, would facilitate the ability to empathise with that person, to see their perspective more fully and therefore appreciate their emotional state more accurately? is this not that "emotional humanity" that NTs go on about, that "human question"?
there is so much in the way that the NT world perceives the relationship between logic and emotion that i don't understand and have always found very backwards and confusing--just like pretty much everything else about western society in general.....
my personal theory is that western culture as a collective consciousness has run mad, and we are actually the sane ones in an irrational world...but now i'm just rambling lol
there is so much in the way that the NT world perceives the relationship between logic and emotion that i don't understand and have always found very backwards and confusing--just like pretty much everything else about western society in general.....
my personal theory is that western culture as a collective consciousness has run mad, and we are actually the sane ones in an irrational world...but now i'm just rambling lol
Hey- I TOTALLY agree
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AmberEyes
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AGMorehouse
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Did anyone mention Harry Potter himself?
Here is how:
-Obsessive when it came to knowing what Draco was up to. In Half-Blood Prince, Harry made Draco the focus of his conversations, and always following him around. He was also obsessive over Ginny in the Half-Blood Prince, because when he got injured, he was mentally constructing a scene in which Ginny was crying over his bed.
-Not aware of his surroundings. The Sectumsepera scene showed he had no clue what he was getting into
-He's somewhat lazy when it comes to his studies. He only got slightly than average marks on his O.W.L's, and the only thing he did well on was the Defense Against the Dark Arts. In fact, in Order of the Phoenix, the D.A showed that was all he knew.
-Can be easily frustrated. While on the Qudditch team, he was so easily frustrated that he bellowed when he couldn't take enough. Can lash out in Deathly Hallows, especially at Ron.
-Not willing to stand up for himself. When he was in detention with Umbridge, he was not willing to report that his hand had the writing "I must not tell lies." In HPB, he didn't defend himself to say that Malfoy was going to use an unforgivable curse on him
- Isolated. He especially shows this in Goblet and Order.
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