The Pro-Cure Thread

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Well, if this is an invitation to specifically examine some of the ways in the OP's post can be debated, I will respond. In the opening post of this thread, it was said:

Because your post seems to address the way AS people interact in debating pro-cure and anti-cure ideas, and the discussion on this thread hasn't hit that yet, perhaps that is why you're unsatisfied with the thread (even though it seems to me that both sides got to make some extensive comments). If you would like to discuss how we should discuss pro-cure and anti-cure ideas without being too aggressive and portraying pro-cure as bigoted monsters, I would like to discuss how we could discuss pro-cure and anti-cure ideas without being aggressive and portraying AS people as degraded, defective organisms.

People seem to be reluctant to talk about this stuff (hence the polite, "silent majority") so if that kind of discussion is what you want, then it might be constructive.

So you want to find a single case of pro-cure person "the aggressive ones" as part of a debate on how AS can constructively debate a pro and anti cure idea, I offer the following, in response to your above OP post in the (link)Militant, much? thread:



I'm not going to quote back more than that because you can go back to the (link)Militant, much? thread and read it. What this post is for is to examine the use of argumentation and aggression in these pro-cure and anti-cure debates. If I recall, in that thread, you opened with what I thought was a very condescending, mocking post on the things you say AS here were saying, including that AS were going to be the New World Order and other absurd comments. In the OP post there, you stated:



This was back in the Summer. Recently, you bumped this thread back up with a comment about "haters... hating" and then I responded with, among other posts, requests for examples of this absurd "militant Aspie" rhetoric your OP post claimed was filling up the forum so as to make you "so sick and tired of the amount of [it]".

I will give you my frank opinion about this way of having a discussion. It seems to me to be very disrespectful and express considerable condescension, belittling and contempt -- and a lot of anger -- toward AS people. That impression I have is reinforced when, in response to requests that I posted that you come up with specific examples of the militant rhetoric that was filling up the forum so as to make you sick, you say you don't have to respond on account of <insert here some personally belittling remark about me>.

I've been around a bit, and in the Deep South too, where discrimination and active bigotry is openly expressed in places. It seems to me this is the way that someone who hates a group of people and looks down on them talks at them and responds to them. They make very condescending, demeaning generalized remarks about them and then when challenged they belittle the challenger. It seems full of disrespect.

Perhaps the pro-cure and anti-cure discussions are ugly and heated, not because AS are too socially impaired to have a good discussion. But because they aren't being treated as legitimate opinion-holders and thinkers by the pro-cure people who view them as inferior and invalid objects of defectiveness?

I have heard some people here on a thread complain that they didn't dislike the pro-cure positions so much as they didn't like how they were treated and portrayed, marginalized as objects of pitiable defect. Perhaps more respect on the part of pro-cure people, like some of the posters on this thread, would change that atmosphere a little?

I'm surprised you can't find any aggressive, negative pro-cure posters on this forum. Your OP post said "Ironically I can't find a single case of this." I think you're not paying attention if you can't see it.

You still haven't pointed out the part in your example.

And another one here, ''<insert here some personally belittling remark about me>.''.

I like how you avoided any sort of quote about these personal attacks I'm supposedly making because can't find any.

Deanfoley, please drop it! Because it is such a marshy field, such sloppy grounds! There is so much unrelated ideas, that somebody can always turn it differently.

You're not admitting to being intellectually inferior to an AS person, are you? I feel very complimented by this post.

I don't try to use any means to win. If some is right, I admit it. There are quite a few people here who have won arguments with me. The guy with the lollipop, for example (makuranososhi) gets the better of me just by being right, nothing fancy.

I am writing a lot in part because I'm trying to develop my verbalization skills. If I were smarter, I could say the things I try to say in a quarter of the space. My posts are too long, and that's a verbosity problem.

I have to go away now for the holidays. I just want to say that DeanFoley, I don't think you're bad or good, I don't know you. I didn't mean to be personally insulting with the "trolling" or "trollish" remarks, just trying to comment on the particular argumentation behavior. It is probably best for me not to use "troll" references because they're inflammatory and too vague to be useful.

I do think you like to speak up and force issues in the open, which is something you see in brave and intelligent AS people. I wish I could do it better, because I annoy a lot of people because I often am too obnoxious to be effective at getting my points across.

So if I were to make a personal judgment about you based on these two threads I would say you have passionate views, like to force debate and that you're not afraid to engage, either. So if you really are a 14 year old AS in college, you are probably pretty impressive. But on the other hand, if you really are a 14 year old AS in college, you are also not coming from a place with a lot of experience, age, wisdom or credibility when you come out with scathing language on a life-insight or lifestyle issue. Maybe when you have more experience and wisdom you can so decisively tell people who are older and more experienced than you how to put their lives and minds in perspective.

So along with your brashness and passion for an issue, you can also be wrong a lot of the time, if it's in an subject where you have much less life experience or other experience than the people whose thinking about themselves you challenge.

Gotta go, have a nice holiday, both of you.

Edited to add: the quoted paragraph by Naturella was gone by the time I finished writing this post, but I will leave the quote in anyways.

I am sorry I was too agressive. I edited my post and regret the irony that the original vertion contained. I appreciate your polite reply and patience.

I like how they artfully tell me yet again of my suppossed flaming right before darting off.

I think this post only proves my point. Seeing what they want to see and making false accusations. Maintaining ''politeness'' is not disguising the point that yet again they construct a straw man. I've not told anyone to do anything, for instance. And if this is what Ephermerella counts as doing so, then she would be doing the same.

Either way, I'd still like people to at least incorporate some element of truth into their attacks on me if they're going to go forward with it .

This thread is so convoluted that it stopped making any sense a long time ago.

Yes, very true. It seems two people constructed a straw man together midway through the thread, named it Ephemerella, and have been arguing with it continuously ever since, while ignoring it's namesake.

I entirely agree with you on that. But the idea of AS superpower sells very well on this forum. If you endorce the AS superiority - your oppinion is going to be very popular and you are going to be a highly respected person by the majority, who like to view themselves superior. This is the only place where they can claim their superpower, so.. may be it is just cruel to deprive them of this dream? Anyway, they are not going to buy your down to earth point of view. This point of view is what they know already and what reality shows them every day. But superpower is something they can only get here.

Again, there was never a claim on this thread that A.S. people have superpowers or that we are superior to anybody. You are still attacking something you made up. All that has been said is that, if offered a "cure", we would not take it because A.S. is tied into certain aspects of our personalities that we wouldn't want to go away. I personally think I am happier as a person with A.S. than I would be if I were NT. That is what was said by Ephemerella as well. This is not a statement of superiority. I don't like seafood. Does that statement equate to declaring I am superior to people that like seafood? That is that error you are making here in this thread.
That is all I will say on the subject. This thread needs to die. If you and DeanFoley wish to pat each other on the back for your "down to earth" views, go right ahead.

''Superpower'' is a representative word.

There are plenty of people here willing to brag about the superiority of AS and inferiority of NT's. Some liken NT's to mindless sewer rats for socialising. Others view them as narcisstic, phoney, evil people and others view AS as more rational and logical.

Keep up the claims of ''You're just making it up!''. It really shows how you know you're wrong.

Again, you fail to point out exactly where this statement was made on this thread. There is a quote button for a reason.

It is to show that it does happen, not directed specifically at this thread. This discussion goes beyond one thread, it stretches across many things on this website. In the past page alone there were several references to another of my threads, where there were other accusations of me making it all up that there is a pervasive ''AS superiority'' attitude on this website.

Many anti-cure people, not necessarily confined to this thread or making the statements here, view themselves with an air of superiority and NT's as inferior. Some participants on this thread have implied it(and if you really are desperate I can fetch a few quotes from this thread) or made it clear elsewhere(and since profiles and other threads are being used by ''your side'', I'd say I'm perfectly justified by considering their comments elsewhere).

ephemerella, how did you know you were using your brain like an NT? I mean, did you suddenly wake up feeling different?

Thank you for taking me out of context. I was writing how my personality feels like it has color to it when it comes to discrimination. I made a metaphor to my feeling rather than an analogy of AS people and race. I look at AS as a genetic trait that can't be changed and often gets discriminated against. Skin tone is a genetic trait that can't be changed and often gets discriminated against. When I think about discrimination, skin tone is the first example to come to my mind. Hence why I chose it metaphorically, and since pride in color comes to mind with that, I threw that in to continue the metaphor so you could try to fathom where I'm coming from. I'm proud of who I am and wish other AS people found that kind of pride because it's a word I can't think of right now and i don't have time to try, but somewhere along the lines of relieving, therapeutic, taking the weight off your shoulders type thing. But you are right that discrimination against race is based on looks while AS discrimination is based on the term or the differences of approaching life (I can't call it a personality because then AS would be a personality disorder, but its not). I do agree cultural and national pride is different. I should have gone with football fanatics as sometimes that's genetic, in an indirect sort of way, but it doesn't quite touch on my feelings of discrimination nor about taking pride in who you are. Race, national origin, culture...all pride in who you are more so than what you stand for.

The Nt's think they are the superior ones and discriminate over it, and a lot of people seem to view it that way when the NT's start throwing around the word cure because they fear they will be eliminated through genetic preferencing and forceful cures (which isn't the most rational thinking, but I've seen those thoughts on the forum). Nobody has ever suggested wiping out the population of NT's, so I don' t quite understand where HItler comes into play as he was actively killing people who didn't fit his superiority description. I'm assuming that last paragraph was just a rant more so than directly related to me because I've never said anything that suggested AS to be superior to anyone. All I did was state how I could see them being viewed as better if a list of better traits were Aspie traits (such as better at math and more creative). Let's just say science proves Aspies are better at math and more creative than NT's...let's pretend for one minute...that doesn't mean let's wipe out the NT's. That means that Aspies would be better at math and more creative. No different than NT's say we suck at social skills, and they proved it. That doesn't mean they should wipe us out. It just means we lack social skills. For NT's to have pride in their social skills no where gives anyone the impression that they mean war. For us to have pride in who we are doesn't mean we are ready to kill people over it. If you are that way, then I do suggest you not having any pride and you stick to your argument that you need to change and find that cure. Otherwise, please don't take things to a level that it doesn't need to go. The Hitler comment was way more inappropriate than what you thought my race comment was.

My therapist actually stated that this forum reminds her of Nietzsche's Supermen- or the X-Men. xD