Do you think that Elitism is a problem in the WP community?

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Touche. QFT

To be honest I don't think I'm the one who needs to open their mind a bit here. Night.

Ephemerella seems cool she just underestimates the power of the Aspie. She wants to put us into two catagories without any sound scientific basis.

What the *bleep* does self-esteem have to do with anything??? Some of us would like to be able to work and pay our own way, but that doesn't mean we lack self-esteem. You can like yourself a lot and still hate the situation you're in.

Whether you locate the problem in the autism or in the lack of accommodation for autistic differences in the community makes no difference to me. (At this point in autism history, it's probably not going to make much difference.) The point is, there is this group of people who share a diagnosis who also share a set of problems (not universally, but many of us do) that need to be addressed. It has nothing to do with self-esteem! It's a practical matter. The autism equivalent of ramps still doesn't really exist yet, except in that we can use the internet to talk to each other now and before we couldn't. Give us the ramps and get out of our way! (And watch your toes!)

And people with low self-esteem may be less inclined to stand up for themselves and complain in the first place.

I definitely feel that there should be accommodations. NTs have a lot of support and accommodations, only the things they need to get by -- support and services -- are built into society because they are the "norm". Everything from standard medical practice to how churches provide support and counseling, how sick leave is structured, and everything else is set up to provide support and accommodation to people's life needs or counseling needs are set up for NTs.

In my mind, AS accommodations are no different than NTs in that they need support an services, only they are not the norm so that a special effort has to be made to provide AS people the kind of support and services that are relevant to their needs.

I don't see AS as being a disability in the sense that people are crippled, mostly that AS do need special accommodations because they have different needs than the norm.

Self esteem has bugger all to do with it. In response to previous suggestions in this post my levels of self esteem are fine,

Exactly! and facing these issues head on does not equate to low self esteem.

For those that want more accommodation for our needs just what do you mean?



Why would anyone? unless we are talking about extremely low level autism.

None of these services you've named are specifically for NT's. AS people use medical care, churches, sick leave etc. As for services focusing on the ''norm'', I would imagine that society would be structured to care for the billions over the millions. There are exceptions in people's needs, but it's very difficult to structure a society to care specifically for them. How would they tell the difference?

I don't see AS akin to being crippled, but I don't see it as simply different needs either. It's like, being crippled is losing five fingers(or four and a thumb) and AS is losing two. Some diversity aids in running and progressing society, but there can be negative diversity too, and I see AS as this. I don't believe it presents any serious strengths, but certainly a number of debiliating weaknesses. This doesn't mean I have low self-esteem or that I worship NT's. A person in poverty may desire wealth, but that doesn't mean they revere those who possess it or see themselves as inferior failures.

I know Aspies who are elitist and see Aspies as a superior being to NT's. That's not a very tolerant approach. I strongly believe that an Aspie milieu should be about tolerance and although we've experienced a fair deal of intolerance ourselves that means being tolerant to NT's as well as Aspies.

ephemerella:

For what it's worth (i.e. not much), I whole-heartedly approve of this comment. NTs have difficulties but society, being dominated by NTs, is already geared toward their interests and their way of coping with life. For us accommodations and sympathy are therefore much harder to come by.

DeanFoley:


Not ostensibly, but they were designed through an NT-like system of logic and so they are far better-suited to NTs' needs and ways of operating.

Of course society will be largely geared towards NT's, they make up nearly all of society. It's simply impractical to have an equal number of services for everyone else. That's not to say they shouldn't exist, but I think there would be something wrong if the majority of society was tailored for a minority of its people.

This is true if it's inefficient or destructive for a society to do that.

But societies are like organisms and the greater good is achieved when optimal balance between individual needs and group benefit is met.

It benefits society to accommodate people who are in the minority when there are small adjustments that can be made and there is a big payoff -- someone stays healthy, is a productive worker, is a constructive member of the community, or is not the source of some kind of big problem like blowing up buildings out of despair.

There are always minority needs, and a society has to work out, for each group, where the best line is drawn between putting time and resources into some accommodations versus letting social problems and discontent get out of control by ignoring and marginalizing people who have simple needs.

Sometimes, society doesn't draw the right lines, because society is lazy and tends to listen only to the noisiest and most influential voices, and you have to try to persuade society to see your way.

In general, I think that AS don't tend to use all the public goods, services and resources NTs do. We're not exactly spending most of our lives socializing, including running around in large social groups at events requiring police and public services attention, burning up public streets dashing around with our mates, using ski slopes and so on. I think that as a population we're probably pretty cost-efficient and don't cost as much to support as NT populations when it comes to public goods and services (for those who are not on public support). So failing to allocate a minute amount of public resources and attention to AS accommodations is, in my view, kind of ignorant and selfish, and not that efficient of a decision.

It's my personal opinion that AS people are really worth accommodating. Firstly, they are a mostly-honest, genuine and often talented group of people with unique problem-solving gifts in many cases. Secondly, in modern society people can work on computers and in intellectual jobs, which they can handle well. Thirdly, the lack of social skills is a problem that isn't necessarily like other traits which can prevent someone from working well (like, say, psychosis or multiple personality disorder). So it's my opinion that AS people deliver a lot of value to society for the accommodations that they would need, if society had more structured social and working programs for us.

I think that it really pays to structure programs for AS to help them get through school successfully, and be productive professional and skilled workers, especially. I also think that the kind of accommodations -- ensuring freedom from harassment, flexible hours and social tolerance regulations, are not expensive kinds of accommodations. Not like caring for the paralyzed or something like that.

But maybe we had different accommodations in mind?

What are your thoughts?

WP is a small microcosm of the world so yes there is bound to be some elitism. I've seen it on EVERY single forum I've been on.

No elitism at any of the forums, just bad/arrogant behaviour. Guess we are not that different to NT folke after all.

Some AS puff their chest out and declare their IQ scores because it makes them feel good, can't see a problem with that attitude. Helps to cover up our 'Idiot' status in relation to social IQ(Intelligence).

Not sure how self esteem is a reason for a person with AS/autism acknowledging their impairments and challenges in life. How can a person adjust or modify aspects of their personality/behaviour to succeed or exist comfortably in life without first understanding their different thinking. Some of us need Govt assistance and professional counselling to cope and adjust in society.

Heck we have actually found some common ground.

Absolutely there needs to be programs in schools for Aspergers kids, in Victoria there are non. My partner only works with her four because they have other issues that are funded. Some of the teachers have taken it upon themselves to educate their class mates about the disorder and this has led to a decrease in the bullying. Unfortunately many of the teachers have little or no knowledge of aspergers.

Could you elaborate upon this (please) " ensuring freedom from harassment, flexible hours and social tolerance regulations.........."

Heck we have actually found some common ground.

Absolutely there needs to be programs in schools for Aspergers kids, in Victoria there are non. My partner only works with her four because they have other issues that are funded. Some of the teachers have taken it upon themselves to educate their class mates about the disorder and this has led to a decrease in the bullying. Unfortunately many of the teachers have little or no knowledge of aspergers.

Could you elaborate upon this (please) " ensuring freedom from harassment, flexible hours and social tolerance regulations.........."

"I am too Elite to deign to answer this question"

I said that

I'm a 1337 haxx0r

(just kidding, can't even code for s**t)