Do you agree with what Wikipedia has to say about empathy?

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I generally don't feel sad after seeing those types of stories on the news. What I feel most is anger.

I guess it's the same for me. Things I see on the news don't really affect me.
But I do care about the well-being of people I know well.
People like colleagues though... I don't really care about those.
Although I WOULD try to help them out if they're in trouble. Even strangers I'd help.

I did that test by the way, and scored 17. That's lower than I thought it would be, to be honest.

My own theory is that our perception of other people's emotions can be either under-sensitive or over-sensitive in a similar way to our senses of touch or pain. Either case interferes with our ability to truly empathize. Under-sensitive aspies appear distant and oblivious to other people's emotions because they don't even pick them up. Over-sensitive aspies pick up signals but tend to over-react to signals in a way that flares up their own internal emotions. These emotions then interfere with the ability to accurately process and react to the emotions of others.

I think I'm the latter type. I pick up signals then react to them in an overly-defensive sort of selfish way. Basically I get so overwhelmed that I retreat into myself. I either avoid people or become anxious, hurt, angry, etc. It probably looks like immaturity to other people but I haven't found a way to cope.

^ Marshall, when I fist came to WP I posted here and there about operating like an "animal." some were offended.
I was making precisely the point you articulate above.
My fight and flight responses are so highly attuned and far more extreme than the majority of people I know, and is directly related to my ASD. It is a part of it. This generates the profound anxiety and fear Temple Grandin writes about in some of her works on autism.

There are times when this prevails.

There are other times when the opposite is true. I have NO reaction whatsoever. stony.

The point is I have rudimentary and often out of kilter responses to others. Over or under-reaction and a mid range of emotional language that is virtually non-existent. My emotional language and landscape is one of socially inappropriate extremes.

A good way of saying it.

Im the under sensitive type.

That's exactly it. I do think I operate more like an animal. When I watch frightened deer their behavior makes complete sense to me. First one deer notices me, becomes stony-eyed, perfectly still, and raises it's tail, then all the others immediately pick up the signal and simultaneously dart off. I instantly notice whenever someone is uncomfortable, tense, bothered, or upset, only my brain intuitive lumps all these signals together as "a threat". I get tense, uncomfortable, even impulsive. I have to be very conscious of myself to stop from over-reacting in a negative way. A lot of time I'm around stressed family members I start feeling like a raw nerve, quick to verbally snap at people, say insulting things with impatience, or just fly into a rage. I've always been this way, even as a young child.

Last edited by marshall on 17 Jun 2009, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I suspect the extreme fight or flight response some of us experience may in fact be synonymous with Sensory Processing Dysfunction some of us experience.

I would be interested to see if the two correlate.

Not all ASD people have the sensory issues. Perhaps the under-responsive individuals with ASD's are those without the sensory dysfunction?

That is my hunch. and it is simply that... a hunch.

I think there should be a broader category of "processing dysfunction" which includes emotional input along with the normal five senses. I had a lot of sensory issues a child that have since cleared up. My emotional sensitivity has never gone away.

yes, exactly.
i still struggle with it enormously, which is why conversations beyond one on one are so diffcult for me. Three or more can be overwhelming....

and unless one on one I can come across as a muddled baboon!

But my senses seem to pick up on everyone else's stress, moods.. so if someone does not like me I know straight away and so react.. maybe I am just paranoid... but really its like if there is tension in the room it exhaust me, I kind of zap up all the emotions and then overload later

Also during tense situations I always intuitively feel like all the negative energy in the room is directed at me even when it's not. However the worst part is that I hate being perceived as a muddled baboon. The more I try to hold back the more I end up fumbling around and coming off as timid or weak. I hate that feeling so I start cranking up my emotions and letting things flow too freely. Sometimes end up saying horrible things. I've been known to make death threats.

gee...you two experience some things so similarly to how I do. no wonder we often prefer our own company!!

An interesting thought.

Personally i do have sensory dysfunctions, but they are visual and related to motor skills, ie my visual perception has always been pretty messed up,

and a lot of movements and tasks and activities pile up in my head like a car crash, yet I can talk to people for hours... (provided it isnt small talk and banter).

SO I do have the dysfunctions but they are in a different area.

When negative stuff is going on I dont absorb the energy at all. I feel detached from it, and actually sort of enjoy it, like I am watching an interesting film.

I have sensory processing issues, rated as severe when I was assessed, and-while I am generally sympathetic towards the feelings of others if I know about them, I'm very impaired in interpreting the cues that indicate the feelings of others.

Wow, this is a great thread. All y'all have said some awesome things. When I read the list of symptoms for young children from an autism center in my state, one of the "symptoms" is "underactive/overactive." Maybe the sensory things are like that too, like undersensory or oversensory. But is it about the actual feelings or our reactions to them?

Some things about myself I can almost see related to all this... I'm addicted to other people's drama. I love solving their problems, and that's why most of my friends and family call me first when theres a problem. Also, I do feel for people on the news...I hate watching the news because I get so bombarded with emotions like sadness and anger. Meanwhile, some commercials even bring tears to my eyes (ever since I had children...it's really a new thing to cry watching something for me besides Delta Force). Yeah, my new commercial is the one where they show a father hugging his crying kid saying how a shirt can also be a pacifier. It's like I can see my kids in other situations much easier than I've ever placed myself, so that's kinda different I suppose.

I too get confused when I see someone crying, like should I hug them or do they want to be alone, etc. I think a lot of it is that I'm just afraid to react the way I want to because it might be wrong....like some people don't want hugs and some people don't want to be alone when crying.

But also, when in situations that's shocking, I have a delayed reaction. Like one time I was at the club after it closed in the parking lot, and some friends of mine got into a fight (all dudes), and after the fight, one of the other guys sucker smacked my friend and knocked him unconscious by a stroke of luck on his (the bad guy's) part, and everyone just stood there with their mouths hanging open, except for a very drunk nurse. It's like yeah he's out cold and blood is pouring out the bottom of his head, just don't step in it and call 911 so I can check the pulse and protect his neck type thing. So if it's empathy to sit like moron in shock to these things, then I don't have that like I can step away emotionally from a situation temporarily to overcome it much easier than most people.

What else I find difficult is controlling my emotions. I think a lot of Aspies are this way. When I'm angry, it's ugly. That's totally an understatement. I scare people. Big, mean, cold blooded killer type people. Also, when I'm around a member of the opposite sex that I really like, oh I'm a nerd. And a very annoying one at that. I talk a lot, get really hyper, say and do stupid things, etc. I can know that I'm doing it, but I can't stop myself not even for sake of the game. I also do that in other nervous situations like job interviews for jobs I really want...basically when I'm trying to impress someone for whatever reason.

I really think the ability to figure out other people's emotions go hand in hand with the ability to have emotions. Same with the ability to communicate those emotions effectively. Like, I don't think my problem is having my own emotions or feeling other people's emotions. My problem is getting people to understand that I have emotions and that I do feel theirs. Like one time I overdrew my checking account, my sister was like, "I don't understand how that doesn't upset you. I'd be in tears if I did that." I'm like, "It does upset me, even if I don't cry about it, even if I'm taking lightly and laughing about it, deep down inside I really want to cry about it." Even then, she thinks I'm just saying that like I lie all the time or something...lol.

Also, just for the record, that empathy quotient test is full of it. First of all.... My sister would probably score very high, and she has no idea what anyone is truly feeling because she's too selfish. Even when she's playing her social etiquette, she's doing it not because she wants everyone to have a good time, but because she's overly concerned with what they think about her. To me, that's not empathy. Like she doesn't know what they are feeling, and she's happy with a false perception of what they think about her if it's a good one. Second of all... like someone here said before... There is a big difference between empathy and perceived empathy. It's not just us Aspies. NT's get it wrong a lot. And also, Aspies get it right a lot without realizing it. I also think, generally speaking, Aspies are more critical of themselves and more negative about themselves in self assessments (like they want to make sure they aren't lying) than NT's. Basically, there is a level of those social rules going on in these psychological assessments. It's like the scale should change for Aspies in consideration of actual norm...I know it's not making sense, but I tried.

Anyway, getting monologue here. Sorry, just my two cents supersized.

I have been exploring this place for a few days, and I was ready to conclude that I have many things in common with many of the folks here, except perhaps not as intensely and eye contact doesn't do me in, and I don't lack empathy. But after reading this thread I see I may have empathy misdefined in my mind. I noticed on that EQ test, the questions were more about responses between people than perceptions of emotions. I've always been able to feel others emotions. I have a theory that people broadcast their emotions as they experience them, and empathic people possess emotion receivers. And like a radio, the received emotion plays in me such that I feel it like it's my own, but it used to confuse me because the emotions I was then feeling would make no sense for me to be feeling them in the current context of my day. I learned that if I looked around me, I usually could find another person in my environment whose current context made sense for them to be feeling that, and most of the time that is in fact the person whose feelings I was coexperiencing. I also often feel when someone is reading my words. If I have learned to recognize the person by the feel of their vibe, I will know who it is as they are contemplating my words.

I possess, or somewhere acquired/developed an ability to tune out some people's emotions and focus on only one person. I expect that might be an INFP talent, those of you who are familiar with MBTI, but it doesn't work in all situations. Like we were given complementary tickets to a Dallas Cowboys game a few years ago, when we attended, I didn't manage to remain in the stadium past the first quarter. Actually I was more fascinated by watching the camera crew work than watching the players, but what did me in was the overwhelm of the noise level of the cheering, and the sheer emotional energy of being in a crowd that large. I can often mentally disconnect from a situation when it is becoming emotionally overstimulating in situations like at movies, or news broadcasts, but that didn't work then.

Now learning how to express a response has taken a lot more time. It is certainly not an innate ability for me. I feel driven to find ways to be of benefit to others, but if intuition doesn't come through for me, I'm kind of lost. I will probably never tell someone when I am feeling their emotions, unless I know the person is also empathic. Instead I will look for ways to show kindness, or find some way to make them feel understood without actually telling them I do. Or I may do nothing other than add the experience to the information that I have accumulated on that person.