Can one grow out of Asperger's / autism?

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Yes, very much so.

I was telling one of my high school friends about my recent discovery about myself (i.e. autism), and I don't think she believes me. Then again, she seems to have remembered me a bit differently that I really was. "I remember that you had lots of friends. Everyone liked you. You even had very pretty girlfriends. You were always kind and compassionate and never struck me as awkward." She doesn't remember all of those times I hung out with them and just kept my mouth shut, observing and listening to the social dynamics. Or that I didn't have any friends at all until 11th grade. Or that both girlfriends I had in high school had approached me and had been so obvious about liking me that they might as well have screamed it at me.

We don't grow out of it, but we learn more about the world and people and find ways of coping with some things and also we fill in the gaps with knowledge. Some gaps cannot be filled, it depends where your missing bits are.

When I was a child, I was mute, it took me years to be able to talk but I had to keep trying to make myself do it over many months, that is one thing I was able to do eventually

Some things require a routine for you to be able to do them, but if the routine is disrupted, you may have to start all over again

Some people can never do some things like maybe learn how to tie their laces.

For me, both my severity (how severe I am affected) and my functioning-level (how well I cope) have changed drastically through the years.

Why I am today a lot milder (though certainly not mild) than when I was a kid I don't know. My brain did weird things that suddenly changed my perception and skills (interaction, perception, communication) dramatically over short amounts of time.

My form of autism indeed changed. I lost/gained abilities that had nothing to do with coping. I've yet to find someone like this, seems uncommon because for many kids/&teens autism is a thing that doesn't change much over time/less than others disorders.

I do however know why my functioning-level still is several levels higher than my abilities. For one, I was very lucky about this too. And then, I was very determined, very interested and jumped at every possibility that opened up to me when my neurology changed and my autism improved. I was learning 24/7 as a small kid because I really wanted to and still am today.

Out of curiosity, what changed for you that wasn't related to coping?

I would say that I underwent a dramatic change in adolescence, though I think everyone does in some form. For me, it was "outgrowing" the severity of many of my AS traits. I basically went from someone "living in his own little world" to an extrovert with a close circle of friends in 3 years. (This is probably the reason my high school friends simply don't believe that I am mostly likely on the spectrum.) I didn't quite fit in right away with my friends, but it was close enough. My sensory hypersensitivities decreased sharply during that time as well.

My hugest improvement is from when I was a small kid. Until the age of 5 I had a hell time hearing, watching and such others, getting simple actions others did.

Then suddenly in a couple of weeks perhaps I improved and could suddenly watch others and hear them a lot more than before. I didn't do anything, but suddenly I could do all these things and interact so much. The change was so rapid that I noticed it strongly myself back then even.

My niece (either to tell than myself) also has a similar hx to one of the above posters.
Age 3: little/no speech, severe tantrums.
Age 7: Speaking, still had severe tantrums.
Age 12: Was in self contained special ed. class.
HS: Special ed. class and one gifted ed. class.
College: in IT program. Finally graduated, though it took her longer.
23: Living with boyfriend, full time job. She definitely is not NT though.

I am older than that, and still ASD. But I am living independently, have a driver's license, and a full-time job.
At 20 it didn't look like I'd ever hold a job.


--des

Can you grow out of it? If you can, why are people opposing a cure? It's no different...

It just takes longer to develop empathy and ToM, but now I have it it's more developed than most peoples (I was reading my statement of special needs recently, and discovered how much of it doesn't apply to me any longer - practically all of it, but I'm not telling them). I can socialise fine, if I actually hasd someone to socialise with. Because the education authority decided to send me to a 'special' school though, I can't make any friend who live near me. Or any I have ignore when it comes to their social stuff, because I don't have a mobile phone.

In fact, I might try that. Note down how people react to me and invite me and such without a mobile phone, then see what happens with one. I'll tell you all the results.

Yes, but I don't think that anyone was really arguing that you do grow out of it. Develop with age. There are ways the people interacted with others way way before cell phones, and distance isn't as much of a factor as you might think. You live in a neighborhood, maybe go to a church, there are community activities, etc. of all sorts.I don't mean to be judgmental, as I think I have something of the same issue (not school really). I think maybe your difficulty is more to do with autism than you might think. I have a job, a house, and a car. I have good friends-- which I think all means I am doing pretty well. Still, but I tend to spend very long periods of time by myself.

At one time I was totally a loner and had no friends at all, so I have obviously learned stuff.


--des

I agree. I have learned to "work around" my autism for short periods, before returning home in a heap, picking myself up and returning to my highly routined and quiet life and world of special interests.
I can go out and do some "people related" things for short periods. I cannot work with people and I never have for sustained periods of time. I have had maybe one job with full time hours which lasted a couple of weeks - or was it a few? the same pattern. I fall in a heap. retreat, never return, disappear because i cannot cope, say inappropriate things, and get overwhelmed by sensory issues. (these fluctuate on and off meds. )

So..I am significantly impaired in the area of duration and frequency of social connection with people, the ability to work full time in normal 9-5 employment, as well as impairments in other areas.

And the great irony is - like many people with an ASD - when i am on medication I can - for short bursts - come across as a very articulate and completely "together" individual. (when off medication. ah... i am told i look more stereotypically ASD with NO eye contact, stimming and a loss of comprehension of others' verbal words. they become weird talking head things.)

The case of the invisible disability continues....

     Stimming - I have come across this word a few times here. I don't know what the word means; can someone please tell me?
     Thank you.

Regards, Michael.

Stimming is like fidgeting, but it tends to be different in style and degree from neurotypicals' fidgeting, and is generally done to control the effects of sensory integration differences ("disorders") that tend to be part of autism. Hand flapping and rocking back and forth are typical autistic "stim" behaviors, but they can vary a lot.

As for the question of growing out of autism/AS, I think it may be possible as far as clinical definitions are concerned - my bf might have been diagnosed as a child if the diagnosis existed back then, but he failed to be professionally diagnosed as an adult. These people who seem to grow out of it either learn to cope well, or their neurological growth and development (which all people have) mitigates the clinical symptoms used to recognize autism, or both. But the effects of growing up with autism and any remaining neurological quirks they have stay with them, so it might be a stretch to call them neurotypical.

Physically, I don't think a person can grow out of it. However, the symptoms can possibly become less apparent.

Ah, yes, the "on" days. I have these occasionally, myself. These are the days that convince me that every day could be like that if I just tried hard enough -- of course, then I end up crashing into a meltdown or depression and crawling away into self-imposed isolation to recover.

Regards,

Patricia

Last edited by pschristmas on 27 Jun 2009, 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Refusing to 'Facebook' could be a factor. I asked them about why they didn't invite me before, and they said 'because we couldn't contact you'. Although that could have been one of their little NT excuses...

I must be another piece of evidence that Asperger symtoms manifest differently in different people: I actually enjoy talking to people face to face. Well, not exactly face to face, but...

Oh, and I find it hard to organize an activity (such as a cinema trip or whatever) in person. ut given MSN Messenger, it's a lot easier.

I was never weird as a kid, just extremely quiet except with family.

I was quietly weird as a teenager, but not to others, because I hid everything about myself and was grateful to them for tolerating the minute particles of personality that sometimes leaked through.

I was quietly weird in my twenties, but nobody noticed, because I was very isolated and I've never had any problems with health or hygiene or self-preservation or any of the typical stumble blocks.

I'm quietly weird now, but although it's sometimes considered disturbing it's mostly considered strength of character.

When I notice something needs doing I learn how to do it. Not the big things, like career development and so on, that would require too many factors to take into consideration. But the small things I learn, I always have.

An autistic brain does not sit like a wet blanket over the "real" brain underneath. It finds its own ways of adapting to the outside world, sometimes similar to typical people's ways of adapting, sometimes more unique.

I wouldn't completely discount it. Some of the symptoms might be do to the interaction of the brain type with the influence of "common social factors". Basically, something can pervade society so much that almost everyone has to deal with it, and then psychology will have a hard time noticing this factor when looking for causes for symptoms. But even if its "common" that doesn't mean you can't shield yourself from its impact if you figure out how. Our society neglects teaching certain things because most people have instincts for them, and then fails miserably in teaching people with AS these things. I've seen the methods used and it seems like they never do what would obviously work best, show people with AS how to systemize human social interaction and to think strategically about human social interaction. Seems like all social education for ASDs is based around trying to make the person "polite" more than trying to actually show the person how to understand social interaction in a way that can be applied towards fullfilling the individual's own goals and ends.

Since my main special interest is social science that's helped me a lot with being able to apply logic and strategy to human relationships, although I'm still seen as awkward and understand the interactions of large social groups better than person-to-person interaction, and in either case understand it better in theory or in preparation than in a fluid situation.

I've already been able to see just how "alleviated" Asperger's is becoming for me.

I can systemize out the right body language. It sounds complicated, but really the only thing you need to learn is "confident" demeanor. I see no socially advantageous purpose for portraying any other kind of demeanor. You might also want to learn how to "alter" the demeanor to show yourself as "confident and intimidating" or "confident and open" or "confident flirting" and learning the opposite forms of demeanors in order to avoid portraying those can be useful to. It's good to know what "submission" looks like in order to avoid ever portraying submission.

Generally its more important to know how to portray yourself than it is to know how others are portraying themselves. The latter is important but in reality it's important in so far as it relates to how to portray yourself in response. So my advice is to begin figuring out how to portray yourself and then learn what others are portraying as needed in order to do that.

Here's what I predict will still be left over no matter how improved I get:
1. I'll always be intensely interested in the social sciences and to a lesser extent drugs.
2. I'm always going to sometimes randomly slip into daydreaming, thinking about ideas, or get lost thinking about something I see and find interesting.
3. Might always screw up some of the definitions of things people say. As logical as I get in this time doesn't allow enough time to sit and ponder what a person meant by X.

#1 is what makes me me. #2 I enjoy anyways. #3 is just kind of comical.