Uncomfortable experience with a psychologist. Part 2

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^ Ha ha, my husband and I use that phrase all the time to joke around. Like, he might drop a frozen steak on his toe getting it out of the freezer and I'll go "And how did that make you FEEL?" After he's done wanting to murder me, he usually laughs.

I don't think it's so much the phrase itself being daunting, it's your psychologist not liking the answer you give them. Sure, they say that there are no right or wrong answers, not realizing we're wise to that statement. Yet, when you tell them "I felt [whatever]", they pretty much tell you that it's not the answer they're looking for, which, by definition, makes it a wrong answer. But how can it be wrong if there are no right or wrong answers? Exactly! It's a trap. Some of us a wise to it, but some aren't, unfortunately.

EXACTLY. "Well, there's no right or wrong answer. Except the one I'm not trained to hear." (Sorry to any therapists out here...)

NowhereWoman, it sounds like you had a bad experience with therapy like I did. What adds insult to the injury is that most therapists won't let you call them on their "lie". If you try to point out the inconsistency between "there are no right or wrong answers" and "I don't think that's how you really feel", they start denying it, accusing you of being defensive, trying to persuade you to be more honest (I would be if you actually believed me), and telling you: "it's not about pleasing me, it's about you telling how you really feel" (but if you're not pleased, you're only giving me an incentive not to be honest). I usually fight back against this by memorizing some sentimental-sounding response that portrays me in a good light, and using it when necessary. Obviously, any benefits are lost as a result, but it's exponentially better than being pressured to come up with a "right" answer on the spot. So much for "no right or wrong answers".

I don't mean to turn this into a therapist-bashing thread. But I think it's a good idea to vent about bad experiences with therapy, so people on this site looking for treatment will know what to avoid. And if any therapist actually happens to read this, I really hope it'll make them think about the undesirable effects their methodology can have.

I agree.

There are some good ones out there probably.

I guess therapists (as an analogy) are sort of like plumbers. If you have one come and do a “bodge job” you’re more likely to mistrust any plumbers in the future, even if there are genuinely good competent plumbers out there. If you had a succession of “cowboy” plumbers make exactly the same “bodge job” each time (which would mean that you’d have to call in more plumbers to try an fix the previous “bodges”), then you’d begin to doubt the whole plumbing industry. Perhaps, in desperation, you might read a book on plumbing yourself or take a plumbing course: to help yourself so that you might never see another plumber again. There's trust involved here too.

I wonder if there are in fact such things as “personality technicians” or “life technicians” like there are plumbers?

Codes of practice?


Perhaps some better approaches to therapists helping others could be:

- Don't blithely assume that everyone views life in exactly the same way that you do. Accept that everyone has a different mental operating system and that that’s okay and valid. Different operating systems/internal cultures require different assistive approaches.

- Realise that every human being is a mystery and that you can’t possibly know everything about a person’s internal state of mind just by talking to them

- Realise that human beings don’t always follow text-books for your convenience and that real life is messy

- Too much heavy emphasis on intimacy and feelings can actually be “toxic” to some people, particularly if it’s forced upon them by others. See article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/healt ... 1case.html

- Not everyone was born to be a social networking butterfly 100% of the time and some people actually legitimately enjoy solitude once in a while. These people do care about others deeply, but don’t make a big “song and dance” about it. Not everyone needs hundreds of friends to be happy

- Internal experience of feeling and outwardly communicating feelings are actually two different things which should not be treated as if they’re the same

- Helping others to help themselves in real life and not encourage dependency

- Accept that in some cases, you may not be the right person for some patients. Accept that not everyone can get along with everyone else. Accept that some people may be trapped in unsupportive environments and that the issue may be as a result of outside influences/practices

- Be a friend and be honest.


These are only suggestions

Being involved in any kind of social work must be hard
Kudos to people who try succeed and help people in this challenging field

Aspie1 and AmberEyes: YES! I too believe many therapists are really, really trying. I mean it is after all their life's work. They simply can't believe our answers are necessarily the real answers...they really just can't. It's not a flaw in them or a flaw in us. It's simply that they're asking us a question in Russian and we're answering in Portuguese.

AmberEyes, EXCELLENT points and very thoughtful ones.

Talking at "cross purposes".
Coming at the situation from two different angles.

Exactly they're expecting us to explore our feelings and see the world as full of people.
Perhaps some therapists may not have considered that love, emotion and help can be expressed in a variety of different ways.

It's not a language that many of us are used to, in fact, my relatives might be baffled this "wholly" approach, yet I wouldn't call any of them heartless at all: they care a lot.

I see a world with people in the background and the physical environment in the foreground. It's a mode of object/task orientated thinking. I relate to and care about people by doing. Saying a few deep simple truths or giving a gift is enough.

The therapists seem to expect people to relate to each other more in abstract terms and feelings by chatting. A more passive reflective approach. Perhaps people like us feel dissatisfied with this approach more because it doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything practical or useful. There also seems to be no clear focus in the discussion.


"How did it make you feel?"
Seems awfully fuzzy and vague.
How is it supposed to help move the situation forward in a positive way?


Using the example of the bullying, perhaps a better questions would be:

"Why do [insert name]'s actions upset you?"

"You say that you feel that your "sense of self" has been violated by [insert name]. I'd be grateful if you could explain how you feel your rights have been violated."

"Has [insert name] been systematically targeting anyone else? How do they feel about this? What do they think?"

"What action has been taken so far? Do you feel this action has been effective or is there an aspect of the process that you think we need to discuss further?"

"These acts are technically classed as harassment. There is the possibility that criminal charges could be pressed. You say that [insert name] used to be your friend. How would you like to proceed and what are your feelings on this matter?"

"How do you feel and what do you think about the alternative plan [insert name] suggested to you? Have you considered..."

Notice that in these examples, I've given the feelings tangible real world or situation anchors. The questions aren't left "floating in mid air" with no situations or ideas to refer back to. I've tried to make the questions seem strategy and productive based. These can be followed up in real life and could actually lead to pro-active outcomes, plus make the person feel better.




Thanks.


I wonder if animal therapy (for those not allergic) could be used also.
Animals are wonderful listeners and can be very friendly.
Small mammals and birds can be delightful.
An animal provides a real world focus.
I've always felt better about myself when I've looking after animals.
Perhaps learning to train an animal or husbandry could help the person learn strategies to organise his/her own life.

What about comedy therapy or satire?

There's also performing arts and drama...

These are all active ways of improving mood.

Sorry to bump this thread.


As for "love and understanding", I feel that these terms apply to people who:

- Made the effort to try and understand me.

-Openly admitted, honestly that they didn't understand everything about me, but were still curious.

-Offered practical support without negative judgement.

These people didn't probably know about AS as such, but they gauged that something seemed "different" with me.


Effort means exactly that: it's hard work trying to fully understand someone-else whoever you are, AS, NT or whatever.

Perhaps, it's some comfort is that if someone's struggling to understand you, it's probably just as hard for you to understand them too!

Communication and miscommunication can work both ways.

Agreed.

Time constraints mean that folks who see doctors, pyschologists, therapists (especially in the public sector) will be labelled with a generic condition and offered standardised treatments. Often the care isn't customised or tailored towards the needs of the individual patient.

"How does it make you feel?...Next!"

I don't believe that this approach (however well intentioned) actively encourages patients to work on and take responsibility for their own behaviour.

Tailoring and training require "T and M": "Time and Money".
These are things that not a lot of people have these days.

I've had mostly good experiencs with various different psychologists, have seen a number of them over the last 14 years....however I would never go to see someone who called themselves a "counseller" as they seem to me to be the ones that spend the whole time trying to get you to talk about your feelings, yuck!

Anyway, most of the psychologists I've encountered seem to go for the cognitive behavioural therapy/method...which is more focussed on how you think than how you feel. See the link http://www.psychologistworld.com/cognitive/ for a brief explanation.

It probably suits me well, because it looks at human behaviour from a scientific viewpoint.

You might also find the following book interesting: "Stop Thinking, Start Living" by Richard Carlson. He makes a lot of comments about how "regular therapy" doesn't help a lot of people because by focussing on your problems, and how they made you feel etc...you just end up feeling worse. If you're in a depressed mood, then you are not going to be thinking well so any solutions you come up with for your problems are likely to be flawed.