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sartresue
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21 Jul 2009, 6:17 pm

My tone deaf muscles topic

I seem to fluctuate between rigidity and flaccidity.

My body still surprises me. :roll:


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marshall
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21 Jul 2009, 6:30 pm

gbollard wrote:
Low Muscle tone or Hypotonia is widely recognised as part of Aspergers.

Among its effects are;

Hyperflexibility (the ability to bend yourself into shapes that others cannot easily achieve)
and
Rigidity (the rigid movement being described in this discussion).

It's normal... for aspies at least.


I actually have very low flexibility. Anything that requires whole body movement is hard for me. My lower and upper half seem to move independently. I'm always very stiff and tense. A chaotic environment makes it even worse.



marshall
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21 Jul 2009, 7:30 pm

My problem is feeling foolish. The more anxious I am about how I look the less well I'll perform in any physical activity. Also, it doesn't help when other people point out what I'm doing wrong.

Trying to correct my movements based on other people's comments makes me feel even more stiff/unnatural. It forces me to over-think and over-thinking never works. I have to train myself naturally my own way.



gbollard
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21 Jul 2009, 7:55 pm

marshall wrote:
I actually have very low flexibility. Anything that requires whole body movement is hard for me. My lower and upper half seem to move independently. I'm always very stiff and tense. A chaotic environment makes it even worse.


That's how hyptonia presents.

It's about floppiness in joints which actually means that you can be more flexible - eg: you can bend your fingers back further than some people.

It's also about lack of control... the floppiness means that your body has less control over movement, (which presents as clumsiness).

Finally, since when doing any kind of public activity, dancing for instance, you're trying to restrict that floppiness, the movements themselves present as stiff and robotic.


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willmark
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22 Jul 2009, 8:29 am

BattleCreekDavid wrote:
I don't dance. Much of dancing requires good motor-planning. My dancing is like those people who try out for "So you think you can dance" but are terrible. I just don't have the motor planning involved.

Motor planning. That is an interesting term. I try to move to what feels like it ought to be happening. It's very much an impromptu kind of experience, or would be if I could push it to the exterior. I'll have to look that one up.



willmark
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22 Jul 2009, 8:48 am

gbollard wrote:
Low Muscle tone or Hypotonia is widely recognised as part of Aspergers.

Among its effects are;

Hyperflexibility (the ability to bend yourself into shapes that others cannot easily achieve)
and
Rigidity (the rigid movement being described in this discussion).

It's normal... for aspies at least.

When I was growing up, I was never very strong. This is a lot of the reason I felt defenseless against bullies. I knew that if I stood up to them and a fight ensued I knew I would loose since the bullies I faced were male peers. Of course I have had this neatly explained away as the impact of low testosterone.



Last edited by willmark on 24 Jul 2009, 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

willmark
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22 Jul 2009, 8:52 am

marshall wrote:
My problem is feeling foolish. The more anxious I am about how I look the less well I'll perform in any physical activity. Also, it doesn't help when other people point out what I'm doing wrong.

Trying to correct my movements based on other people's comments makes me feel even more stiff/unnatural. It forces me to over-think and over-thinking never works. I have to train myself naturally my own way.

I know exactly how you feel. I'm like you. I guess the solution is that I need to decide I don't care what other people think.



fiddlerpianist
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22 Jul 2009, 9:00 am

gbollard wrote:
marshall wrote:
I actually have very low flexibility. Anything that requires whole body movement is hard for me. My lower and upper half seem to move independently. I'm always very stiff and tense. A chaotic environment makes it even worse.


That's how hyptonia presents.

It's about floppiness in joints which actually means that you can be more flexible - eg: you can bend your fingers back further than some people.

It's also about lack of control... the floppiness means that your body has less control over movement, (which presents as clumsiness).

Finally, since when doing any kind of public activity, dancing for instance, you're trying to restrict that floppiness, the movements themselves present as stiff and robotic.

How do they determine hypotonia? I've been wondering recently if I have some degree of this. I've always been physically inflexible and naturally a weakling. I cannot perform even one pull up. In the past, I've been lucky if I can bench press the bar and a ten-pound weight. My legs are somewhat stronger but nothing extraordinary. I do often contort my body into weird shapes, especially when sitting.

Then again, I walked early and showed no signs of being "floppy baby syndrome." And I can dance just fine... though the kind of dancing I prefer is more-or-less a walking step.


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gbollard
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22 Jul 2009, 9:20 am

Believe it or not, Hyptonia doesn't have anything to do with strength.

Here's an article I wrote in April 2008 on the subject...
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-does-low-muscle-tone-hyptonia-mean.html


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22 Jul 2009, 10:25 am

willmark wrote:
fiddlerpianist wrote:
willmark wrote:
I love to watch other people move to music, and when I see someone who is totally given over to the music, do you know what I mean, I can see it on their face. When I see that, it can make me cry, it is so beautiful, but I don't seem to possess that ability myself.

You don't possess the ability to make people feel that way, or you can't feet that way yourself? I am truly blessed, for I can make people feel that way. It's my absolute favorite way to make people happy. When the music is really good at a dance, I can feel that way myself. It makes me smile just thinking about it.

An ability to make another feel that way will not substitute for my desire to be able to express that feeling that I experience in myself.

I just realized that yesterday I misread your post. My response probably made no sense. I apologize.



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22 Jul 2009, 11:08 am

gbollard wrote:
marshall wrote:
I actually have very low flexibility. Anything that requires whole body movement is hard for me. My lower and upper half seem to move independently. I'm always very stiff and tense. A chaotic environment makes it even worse.


That's how hyptonia presents.

It's about floppiness in joints which actually means that you can be more flexible - eg: you can bend your fingers back further than some people.

It's also about lack of control... the floppiness means that your body has less control over movement, (which presents as clumsiness).

Finally, since when doing any kind of public activity, dancing for instance, you're trying to restrict that floppiness, the movements themselves present as stiff and robotic.

I still think I'm the opposite. I bend less than most. I have very short tight muscles (for my overall frame). I could never touch my toes or do "the splits". I also have trouble swimming because of limited range of motion in my shoulder joints.



willmark
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22 Jul 2009, 11:40 am

marshall wrote:
gbollard wrote:
marshall wrote:
I actually have very low flexibility. Anything that requires whole body movement is hard for me. My lower and upper half seem to move independently. I'm always very stiff and tense. A chaotic environment makes it even worse.


That's how hyptonia presents.

It's about floppiness in joints which actually means that you can be more flexible - eg: you can bend your fingers back further than some people.

It's also about lack of control... the floppiness means that your body has less control over movement, (which presents as clumsiness).

Finally, since when doing any kind of public activity, dancing for instance, you're trying to restrict that floppiness, the movements themselves present as stiff and robotic.

I still think I'm the opposite. I bend less than most. I have very short tight muscles (for my overall frame). I could never touch my toes or do "the splits". I also have trouble swimming because of limited range of motion in my shoulder joints.

I would have expected floppiness to be about connective tissue disorders. I have a friend who has a disorder that causes tendons to be stretchy. Can't recall the name of it at the moment. She is always having to reset her own dislocated joints, and she is almost always hurting somewhere.



fiddlerpianist
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22 Jul 2009, 1:12 pm

gbollard wrote:
Believe it or not, Hyptonia doesn't have anything to do with strength.

Here's an article I wrote in April 2008 on the subject...
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-does-low-muscle-tone-hyptonia-mean.html

Doesn't it have to do with how well your muscles can "hold" a charge? Wouldn't something like a pull up, where you are sustaining an exerted flex on your muscle, be more difficult? I have always found that pull ups were simply overwhelmingly difficult. I mean, I'm no doubt a weakling, too, so maybe I should just leave it at that. :)

From the blog post:
Quote:
When sitting or standing for long periods, aspies tend to slump quite a bit. Sometimes, they will stand with their legs crossed in what appears to be an uncomfortable fashion. My mother was constantly trying to correct this stance and while I'm reasonably aware of it at work, I still find myself standing that way regularly. I'll point out now that although this looks uncomfortable, this is actually a very comfortable stance for aspies.

Don't most people slump in their chairs naturally after sitting for awhile? I pretty much always have to adjust myself and sit up straight, but then in 2 minutes I'm slumping again. I think it's one of the reasons I like to sit on my feet; it props me up.

Quote:
Aspies often sit with their head and shoulders rolled forward and will frequently lean on walls, furniture, door frames and desks. Parents of aspie children will probably be very familiar with being "leant on".

I definitely have had bad posture all of my life and roll my head forward. But I think that's largely in part because I am tall and I sit at a computer for work.

Quote:
Low muscle tone does not prevent aspie children from enjoying themselves, they can run and play with other children without feeling any ill effects. The problem is that, they're a bit slower and they tire easily. This means that team sports, like soccer are often not well suited to aspies. In the case of my son, we turned to scouting as an alternative to soccer.

I doubt that this is the reason I was so bad at team sports. I think it was more of a hand-eye coordination issue. That and knowing when to do what or who to kick the ball to I just found very confusing.

So... sounds like I'm inconclusive.


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22 Jul 2009, 2:08 pm

willmark wrote:
marshall wrote:
My problem is feeling foolish. The more anxious I am about how I look the less well I'll perform in any physical activity. Also, it doesn't help when other people point out what I'm doing wrong.

Trying to correct my movements based on other people's comments makes me feel even more stiff/unnatural. It forces me to over-think and over-thinking never works. I have to train myself naturally my own way.

I know exactly how you feel. I'm like you. I guess the solution is that I need to decide I don't care what other people think.


------------------

I think that's exactly why discovering Aspergers has felt so liberating to me. I realize there's a very good reason for me not to have the same gait / mannerisms that others do. So I don't feel the same pressure to conform, much less in every single detail, as I was doing to myself before.



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22 Jul 2009, 2:13 pm

I'll admit that my posture has never been that good as, there are time when I tend to walk in an awkward manner.. Also, when I stand, I tend to sometimes stand on my toes as such which, I'm sure must appear very odd indeed but, it bothers me not though..



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22 Jul 2009, 3:40 pm

Motor planning is an occupational therapy term. It's basically getting your body to perform whatever task you're performing. Like when children learn to walk up stairs. Some children will step and bring both feet together instead of alternating each foot. Anyway, it's why I can't dance or do well in sports.


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