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poopylungstuffing
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11 Aug 2009, 1:03 pm

..if you are lucky enough to be able to afford the "label"

I am an adult with a support network...but I worry about what happens when that support network goes away and i am left an awkward, quasi-unemployable middle-aged woman.



innermusic
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11 Aug 2009, 1:10 pm

I have a son with PDD-NOS, had speech delay, and also relative with Asperger, the same age, who spoke early and had early intense special interests and a high IQ, but of course low Emotional Q, and temper problems. Both on the spectrum, but they are very, very different. They are about the same age. At a young age, my son with PDD-NOS seemed to have the most severe problem - he wouldn't talk for one, and he had sensory sensitivities, loud noises, sudden turn off of lights would make him scream. He did the old spinning wheels, flapping hands, and could have spent hours in the sink watching the water run. He started getting help at age 2. We then noticed he was also smart, but in a more spacial way. He was a visual learner. Could put together puzzles upside down very quickly, and he wrote his name at age 2 before he could really talk even. (we believe he has hyperlexia, also seems to be a math whiz). At school however, he could not name his classmates from their pictures, and had 'personal space' issues. He has been having intense help (mostly from me) to help with his shortcomings. One example - when he was learning to speak, when I would show him my fingers counting the syllables of a word as I said them, he seemed to understand better. Veg-ta-ble. I had a few Hellen Keller style breakthrough moments with him when he was little - it was amazing to see how differently he processes things!

The other seemed advanced for his age, and we thought all was well and we had a smart kid on our hands. Had a huge vocabulary at a very young age, and knew every detail about his favorite topic. We joked we could put him on Jay Leno and see who could name the most car models from a picture. He would have meltdowns and get angry at himself easily, but we chalked it up to being quirky smart.

Now as they are getting older, the one who was most behind is becoming better socially than the one who we thought was fine and was more advance early on. The PDD-NOS kid has seemed to have grown out of what we thought might be debilitating autism, and is able to make friends and joke and kid around much better than the now even more sensitive one that has Aspergers. The Asperger guy's special interests are all he talks about, and he doesn't look at anyone at all when he talks, forgets to say goodbye, doesn't register on his radar we don't want to know every detail about a president from the 1800s, etc.. but the PDD-NOS one who had help early-on seems to be more flexible now.

So - trying to keep to the topic - We were told they are both on the spectrum, but it's not like it's even a linear thing. They are in different places, and it seems like more of a 3-D or beyond model might explain the spectrum better than what color on the rainbow they stand. It also appears to be a moving target, at least for these young guys. One has moved "up" the other has slipped "down". There are really no two completely alike, or on the same developmental path. The hardest thing I deal with as a parent of a PDD-NOS kid, is dealing with teachers who work with my kid based on their experience of a different child that has come before him. I fight to have them reboot their thinking, and to take a fresh look, because what worked for others, may backfire with mine. They like to put 'procedures' in place for helping kids with "ASD" but it really is case-by-case, anti-intuitive. It takes an open-minded person to be able to work with these kids to help them get to their individual full potential.



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11 Aug 2009, 2:43 pm

I agree with you Willard that the brilliant dishwasher is disabled but I wonder if society didn't have so many social rules that he could function better in his field. I also do not agree with the idea that everyone is on the spectrum- How can you explain a different brain wiring that way? But my original question was not worded well. The thread had already started before I realized my curiosity mainly centers around the PDD-NOS diagnosis and why the language delay is so important in the distinction between Asperger's and Kanner's. Someone suggested earlier that maybe eventually there will be just a broad definition of Autism and people will be assessed at their level of functioning.



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11 Aug 2009, 2:53 pm

I didn't mean to come off as we are all different and yet the same la la la- I guess I went somewhat off topic even on my own original post- in the conversation with the family member that I had I was wondering how much of the disability is because society has such rigid rules for behavior. But that's a moot point because things are not likely to change. :?



duke666
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11 Aug 2009, 11:45 pm

I think the aspie numbers will increase dramatically for 2 reasons:

1. Awareness. We're still near the beginning.
2. It's transitioning from being defined by the impairment, disability, and disease features, to being defined by the neurological differences.

As the specific neurological variations are understood better, there will be more sub-categories identified, and there will always be a continuum based on the types of accommodation required. The whole idea of a 'typical' general population is becoming obsolete.


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makuranososhi
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11 Aug 2009, 11:53 pm

serenity wrote:
Yeah, that whole 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere' phrase really irritates me, too. The same with people that like to go around armchair dxing others with ASD, when the people they're going on about are just different, and not everyone who has a few differences is on the spectrum. I do see ASD as just a different way of being, but you do have to have significant issues with everyday life in at least one area of life to qualify for a dx. Using terms like 'differently abled' or acting as if those on the spectrum are just simply different than the norm does not help the people that really need support to live, and eat. I know this is coming off as harsh, but many of us do need support, and accommodations, and we can't get that unless we get a label, and you can't get that label unless you're impaired somewhere.


A spectrum need not be a straight line; it can well be a plane or even move into three dimensions to account for variances. The way I see it, there are branches that radiate from this ideal of normalcy... one which, on the arm of ASD, might look like:

LFA....Classic Autism...HFA...Asperger's...PDD-NOS...BAP...---NT

...where as another chain might include the schizophrenias or other differentiations. Many times, people may well appear on multiple points in different places at the same time. Depending on the combination of factors, severity of affect, and how that effects how one lives - these are the factors I look at in determining how I see others. I have a lot of adaptations; I also have some key areas that I struggle with that are less apparent to those who do not know me, deficiencies that make life challenging. So I question why having these spectrums are such an issue?


M.


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serenity
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12 Aug 2009, 12:04 am

innermusic wrote:
I have a son with PDD-NOS, had speech delay, and also relative with Asperger, the same age, who spoke early and had early intense special interests and a high IQ, but of course low Emotional Q, and temper problems. Both on the spectrum, but they are very, very different. They are about the same age. At a young age, my son with PDD-NOS seemed to have the most severe problem - he wouldn't talk for one, and he had sensory sensitivities, loud noises, sudden turn off of lights would make him scream. He did the old spinning wheels, flapping hands, and could have spent hours in the sink watching the water run. He started getting help at age 2. We then noticed he was also smart, but in a more spacial way. He was a visual learner. Could put together puzzles upside down very quickly, and he wrote his name at age 2 before he could really talk even. (we believe he has hyperlexia, also seems to be a math whiz). At school however, he could not name his classmates from their pictures, and had 'personal space' issues. He has been having intense help (mostly from me) to help with his shortcomings. One example - when he was learning to speak, when I would show him my fingers counting the syllables of a word as I said them, he seemed to understand better. Veg-ta-ble. I had a few Hellen Keller style breakthrough moments with him when he was little - it was amazing to see how differently he processes things!

The other seemed advanced for his age, and we thought all was well and we had a smart kid on our hands. Had a huge vocabulary at a very young age, and knew every detail about his favorite topic. We joked we could put him on Jay Leno and see who could name the most car models from a picture. He would have meltdowns and get angry at himself easily, but we chalked it up to being quirky smart.

Now as they are getting older, the one who was most behind is becoming better socially than the one who we thought was fine and was more advance early on. The PDD-NOS kid has seemed to have grown out of what we thought might be debilitating autism, and is able to make friends and joke and kid around much better than the now even more sensitive one that has Aspergers. The Asperger guy's special interests are all he talks about, and he doesn't look at anyone at all when he talks, forgets to say goodbye, doesn't register on his radar we don't want to know every detail about a president from the 1800s, etc.. but the PDD-NOS one who had help early-on seems to be more flexible now.

So - trying to keep to the topic - We were told they are both on the spectrum, but it's not like it's even a linear thing. They are in different places, and it seems like more of a 3-D or beyond model might explain the spectrum better than what color on the rainbow they stand. It also appears to be a moving target, at least for these young guys. One has moved "up" the other has slipped "down". There are really no two completely alike, or on the same developmental path. The hardest thing I deal with as a parent of a PDD-NOS kid, is dealing with teachers who work with my kid based on their experience of a different child that has come before him. I fight to have them reboot their thinking, and to take a fresh look, because what worked for others, may backfire with mine. They like to put 'procedures' in place for helping kids with "ASD" but it really is case-by-case, anti-intuitive. It takes an open-minded person to be able to work with these kids to help them get to their individual full potential.


You've made some important insights. I have a brother that isn't diagnosed, but we're all very sure that he's on the spectrum. As a child he was much, much more autistic like (for lack of a better way of explaining it) than I was. He did have a speech delay. He required a lot of help to get through school with all of his executive dysfunction, as well as sensory issues. He still does have a lot of problems with everyday life, but his social skills are definitely better than mine. He does have friends, and has always had way more than I have. Socially (in most ways) he is superior to me.

I think the same will happen with my son. He has always realized that people make nonverbal cues, even if he can't always understand them. He will look at your face to see your reaction, like if he's doing something wrong, to see if you're getting mad. He has always brought books up to me, and asked "what is he saying?" in an effort to decode the expression. He is about at the level that I'm at now, as far as being able to read body language, and nonverbal cues. He couldn't be diagnosed with autistic disorder, because he does have some emotional/social reciprocity.



serenity
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12 Aug 2009, 12:13 am

makuranososhi wrote:
serenity wrote:
Yeah, that whole 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere' phrase really irritates me, too. The same with people that like to go around armchair dxing others with ASD, when the people they're going on about are just different, and not everyone who has a few differences is on the spectrum. I do see ASD as just a different way of being, but you do have to have significant issues with everyday life in at least one area of life to qualify for a dx. Using terms like 'differently abled' or acting as if those on the spectrum are just simply different than the norm does not help the people that really need support to live, and eat. I know this is coming off as harsh, but many of us do need support, and accommodations, and we can't get that unless we get a label, and you can't get that label unless you're impaired somewhere.


A spectrum need not be a straight line; it can well be a plane or even move into three dimensions to account for variances. The way I see it, there are branches that radiate from this ideal of normalcy... one which, on the arm of ASD, might look like:

LFA....Classic Autism...HFA...Asperger's...PDD-NOS...BAP...---NT

...where as another chain might include the schizophrenias or other differentiations. Many times, people may well appear on multiple points in different places at the same time. Depending on the combination of factors, severity of affect, and how that effects how one lives - these are the factors I look at in determining how I see others. I have a lot of adaptations; I also have some key areas that I struggle with that are less apparent to those who do not know me, deficiencies that make life challenging. So I question why having these spectrums are such an issue?


M.


I'm not sure if I understand your question. Maybe, I'm missing your point, but I can't see anything that you've said that I disagree with.



makuranososhi
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12 Aug 2009, 12:24 am

I think perhaps I misunderstood your reaction to the 'all people are on the spectrum' comments; my intent was to illustrate how convoluted a concept that is. In rereading, I think we're soundly in agreement. My apologies.


M.


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Last edited by makuranososhi on 12 Aug 2009, 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

DaWalker
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12 Aug 2009, 12:33 am

Thank you guys for clearing that up...
I re-read it many times,
I thought I was crazy or something. :lol:



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12 Aug 2009, 11:04 am

I think it will broaden over time as, there are so many different qualities that various people have within the spectrum therefore, one can't say that AS is this or that actually, everbody within the spectrum as a whole is not a mirror image of one another though, some characteristics are shown in some and not seen in others.. Still, the more that is learned the greater the understanding about AS and the entire spectrum!! !!



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13 Aug 2009, 6:48 am

About 'we are all on the spectrum somewhere' - I know a lot of people who fit some of the criteria for Aspergers, but are so-called 'NTs'. Indeed, the impostion of routines on other people is a very 'NT' thing to do, despie it being in the criteria for Aspergers.