Reasons I dont like you guys anymore

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My name is Joshua Bourquin, I am Autistic.

Both those elements are major parts of my personality. While I have nothing agaisnt helping Autistics adapt their behaviours to better function in the NT world, I am somewhat against the eradication of Autistic behaviour altogether. It's what makes me me. If I were NT I wouldn't be who I am now, I'd be someone else.

^Not only was that one of the best posts on any forum I've ever read, but it gave me a great idea for Project Aspy.

Alright. The reason I made the TROLL THREAD was because I too was ticked at being called a troll.

After making this thread I went and cooled off by watching television... and I am sorry if I sounded so harsh. I don't want to turn anyone against me anymore than I have. OrderedChaos, I agree with your first post.

My intentions aren't to be a troll. Only COMPLETELY share what I was feeling at the time. Because I do feel like the Great Aspie Man was murdered by careless Aspies who didn't want help. I see the flaw of my former logic, but I still feel kind of depressed and slightly mad. I spent HOURS working on those comics... anyone would be smoothed over if when all is said and done you did it all yourself pretty much. I am sorry for accusing... I am sorry for being NT elitist.

Look, I won't edit out anything from the post because people can use it as referance. But for the record I indeed am sorry... I don't hate anyone here.... I just feel seriously let down. Maybe I was delusional from the start. Thank you for those posts you guys did post. They did help out.

Again: Sorry. Again: Thanks. Please forgive me for my outburst.

For long a time I wished I wasn't autistic, but then again If I had been NT would had a far worse time as a teenager, sure I would been very popular, very sociable and had the girls.

But I would have been a schoolyard drug dealer who would have driven his mother nuts with his antics, he would not be the kind, sweet, generous man that my autistic self is. I would have ended up a total loser, hanging out with stoners and druggies and maybe becoming one himself in time.

I am grateful now that I was born autistic, still it doesn't mean I should not adapt myself better in NT society either.

Hi Steve:

I understand your outburst. When I was in college I started a music magazine and did the first issue mostly by myself, with two friends doing artwork and another writing an album review. For the second issue, I realized I needed more help. Some people from the college radio station agreed to help me. I told them what help I needed, as well as when and where the meetings would be. I held two meetings. No one showed up except me.
I decided to fold the magazine and move on.

The last party I had at my old house was the night before I moved out. I sent out invitations to dozens of people. It was a theme party and I had everything arranged. No one showed up. I moved out and moved on.

I was angry, but I figured that expressing my anger was pointless--it wouldn't have made anybody show up, and they would have made excuses and/or gotten defensive.

I'm sorry no one helped you out with your project. But maybe you could still do it yourself.
Anyway, I'm glad you haven't left WrongPlanet.

I haven't been here for long--a week--but you've all already made a difference in how I see myself. So far, I'm perfectly happy simply to participate in a forum where I can discuss my quirks or read about other people's (and recognize myself in them), and not be regarded as a freak.

It means a lot to me. It gives me some sort of belonging.

I had a meltdown yesterday. I completely lost it, in front of people I don't know, and they probably thought of me as an anti-social jerk. Once I'd recovered some of me again, I wasn't happy about what had happened, but there's a difference between this meltdown and my earlier ones: I've had a very hard time forgiving myself and have been going through them again and again, sometimes for months or even years.

This time, it's been easier so far, and I credit this forum for much of it. That, and my diagnosis, and a bit more knowledge of who and what I am. And what I'm not.

I think this is the most balanced and interesting thread I've read in a long time and I'm glad you started it.
I think that some people are at the stage where they're just trying to figure out who they are and how they're going to deal with life and accept that. Others have come to terms with this and truly want to grow beyond anything that hinders them. These people are more responsive to helpful ideas.

One thing that bothers me is this glorification of Autism Spectrum Disorders and the villification of "Neuro-Typicals". People are all different and should be respected for their strengths and tolerated for their weaknesses. No matter who you are, nobody's perfect and everyone has their idiosynchrosies. I don't like the stereotyping and reverse discrimination that I find here.

It isn't only neuro-typical people who are bullies and unsympathetic. I've seen ADHD and AS and more severly Autistic kids treat each other very badly because of their different percpectives, self focus and rigidity. It is easy to focus on the few things that make us different and not appreciate how much more similar as fellow human beings we are. (I'm not denying that there are significant differences, I know that there are.)

I don't think it's helpful to become seperatist because of misunderstandings. Working together to bridge the gap is most helpful, I think, it we truly want to be understood.

I don't think that AS people bully others because of differen't view like NTs do its more of a you believe some thing differen't to me and you wrong so I need to explain it until you are right kind of view I think. From my prespective thats how I see my own automatic reation to differen't views and I have to spend time trying to look furure into others views to try and see where they are coming from and how they mite of come to there conclusion and weither I should change my views. Like for example I didn't think the creator of this thread was a troll at all then I looked at other peoples view and tryed to see where they are coming from and then agreed. Then I was wrong because I changed my mind I was right in the first place the creator of this topic wasn't a troll at all. I have had a future talk with him in a pm.

I find it is a big problem with conseness in general the inablity to adapt and accept other peoples ideas. Kids are better able to do this than adults I think. This "villification" of NTs is because of a few main reasons I think One of them is people on this site have suffered so much bulling abuse and missunderstandings by NTs that we are quite rightly bitter towards them, we also can't understand alot of how they think because they not only can't usually accept logic in general but alot seem to be afraid of it. They run by emotions which does seem kinda insain to alot of aspies and we don't know how to deal with it.

But I've seen much more emotion on this site and less logic than I expected. (mostly anger and frustration) I agree about the bullying but I've seen non-NT kids doing the same. What I mean to say is, bullying is not exclusively an NT trait. I think that the school system is more detrimental sometimes, than helpful. (not enough supervision, not enough fair-mindedness on the adults part) At an extremely impressionable time, kids are picked on and the "pecking order" is established and so it continues; sometimes until graduation. This makes for an improper mind-set on the part of the bullied. "I'm no good" or "NTs are jerks" When actually it is closer to the truth to say, "I'm not better nor less than anyone else" and "People in general are jerks" "Even I can be a jerk at times"

People who want to feel like they're helping so badly that they don't care about whether what they're doing is actually help and do the "How dare you ungrateful people not let me help you" routine... I wrote a blog entry about that phenomenon awhile back with lots of links about what it is and means:

http://ballastexistenz.blogspot.com/200 ... s-and.html

Nt's and Aspies need this site to help them understand eachother better. Nt parents and family members need this to better understand their children and in my case my husband and daughter who have AS, and adult and Children with AS come to find friends and a little understanding from like minded people. And we all like to compare notes and have a laugh or a shoulder to cry on.
I secretly revel in my Nt ness and I am jealous when I see the intelligence and logical thinking of their Aspieness, if you have flaunt it, which they do with no boastfulness, as do all the Aspies on this site.
To them it's who they are, not what they are.
If there was a verbal war with Nt and Aspie my monies on the Aspie everytime.

Completely out of my mind, and loving it! Honestly, if you can't enjoy being crazy, you don't deserve to be. It sounds to me like you have some misconceptions. "Following through on things" really only applies to Aspie perseverations. For a lot of us, we can't keep a single thought in our heads for very long at all. Playing around is much more entertaining than being serious, and it doesn't require a focus we don't have.
I've always thought that sort of pride misplaced. Why should we be proud in being conceived as different? We shouldn't be revelling in the fact that we're outsiders, and totally f****d up because of it. We should be trying to change that perception, not endorsing it. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. We are all part of the same compost heap. Congratulations, you're one step closer to hitting bottom.

Last edited by danlo on 27 Jan 2006, 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wow! Anbuend, that was an excellent link. I was going to broach that subject originally but didn't know how. We're all shocked the first time we try to help someone and are rejected!
I know people who give only because they like it when you are indebted to them. I think it's a power and control issue disguised as "giving".
Ex. you are having a hard time financially, I give you material things. Result: I feel needed and good about myself.
Then: you recover financially, I'm still trying to give you things, you say thanks, but I don't need it anymore, Result: you are angry and think that i'm ungrateful and are no longer concerned about me.
I have met people who constantly position themselves as a benefactor over you and arrange it so that you can never repay them so that they can feel useful or good about themselves; the moment you will no longer accept gifts or services from them, they don't care about you at all.


Disclaimer: This was slightly off topic and I wasn't indicating that these statements are true of the original poster.

I know how much your head hurts when I play my particular siren, but look at it from another point of view. People like to have people trying to help them, gives them a boost that someone cares enough about them to try. When the person being helped has nothing to take from that person anymore, they don't care about you. They only care so long as you're helping them. This is the way of the world, I'm afraid. Is it so bad to want to help, when it's the only way you ever get noticed? Perhaps that indebtitude is a way of maintaining their interest in you, so as not to lose that modicum of interest. Who really, in the system of two-way manipulation, is THE manipulator? Some of us are just invisible otherwise, noone cares about them. Can you really hold it against them, that they have to resort to tactics to obtain something others take for granted?

I'm looking forward to a society where everyone's quirks are considered just that -- quirks and different cognitive styles. Oddly enough, I found it in an unexpected place: Late Victorian England. At least among the upper classes! Go read the descriptions of Mycroft Holmes and the Diogenes Club to get a taste of what I mean.

I am getting SO sick of the medicalization of our culture and I am also getting sick of Identity Politics, which had a point back in 1965 but have gone about as far as they can go 40 years later. Of course, if they had medicalized me Way Back Then, I wouldn't be here typing my heart out online. I'd have been subjected to the mental health system of the period (shudder....)

Yes, this sounds awfully Rodney King-ish, I know. But hey -- that's typical of my generation.

But let me address the "I tried creating a superhero and NOBODY RESPONDED!" I've started and responded to a lot of threads on this forum and others and in RL (check the thread here about being ignored or invisible) and had that response. I've poured my heart and soul into writing and gotten Form One rejection slips (0.125 of a sheet of paper with a canned message, faded from multiple xeroxing) a hellish number of times. In short, this is part of the whole "Yeah. Life sucks." thing. Which Buddhists will recognize as Buddha's greatest discovery, the First Noble Truth.

I am not going to judge anybody else's pain, having done my own share of whining and shaking my fists at the heavens. I certainly can't judge what's going on inside anybody else's mind. Nor suggest remedies, since everyone's greatest pain is different. All I can say is that we've all dealt with all sorts of s**t and survived, and here's my take on it.

It's not what happens to you, though that can be devastating and even fatal. It's how you deal with it and what you make of it. I've heard Roman Catholic sources say that pain, accepted and channeled towards a definite end, can be a very constructive thing. (C.S. Lewis' analogies are to stone being polished and dogs being taken to the vet, the groomer, and puppy school. God certainly sent HIM to puppy school - very late in life, too! But I digress.)

Yes, it all boils down to the message of the cat on the tree branch, "Hang in there." Sorry.

Just my $0.02

I suppose people have different reasons for coming here. To be blunt, mine don't have anything to do with understanding NTs; I can walk down to the corner shop and do that. Furthermore, I don't feel particularly comfortable with NTs coming here to "understand" us, as if observing rats in the laboratory. To be brutally honest, if the NT density here increased above a certain level, I probably wouldn't bother posting. Of course, that would no doubt please a few in the upper echelons of WP, but it would also, I suggest, be indicative of how a large number of other people who post here feel.

Naturally, I've nothing against neurotypicals, it's just my experiences in these internet places are that the few people who seem to make any sense, and who I'd feel comfortable communicating with, are diagnosed with AS, or at least think they have it. I'm not trying to elicit any kind of emotional response out of you, either. So, don't think I've anything against you; I'm sure you at least mean well.