offically at war with my diagnosis.

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I didn't forget it.. it's what happens when somebody decides that you're a horrible person not worthy of being treated like a human being. (Grr, why does WP not have that bursting-into-tears emoticon like on Yahoo?)


I'm not sure what you're not so sure about, because it doesn't look to me like you said anything there that contradicted what I said. The fact that it doesn't come naturally makes it harder to determine what somebody is feeling and what their intentions are. I think I was describing the result of the process that you just described?

+1

It is also possible for someone with AS to be empathic at times on the inside but it not reflect on the outside.

So, you might understand another person via empathy but you don't react in the correct way on the outside, so nobody notices it.

Example, when I hurt, I find it best to deal with it verbally, but if I try to do that with an NT person, it only makes them more upset. I am empathic to their situation, but my response is not desirable. As a result, I avoid those situations because what I'm inclined to do as someone who has been down that road is not what the typical NT person would do.

This is the bit I was thinking of... the contrast between lacking empathy and inaccurate empathy.

The suggestion that our empathy is as subconscious and automatic/non-volitional as an NTs, just inaccurate.

Whereas I do feel like a lot of my "empathy" for humans emotional states is learned. I was born lacking an innate automatic sense of 'fellow feeling', but I've cogitated and meditated and worked to 'put myself in their shoes' so now as an adult I have a much better sense of another's experience.

Does that make sense?

Last edited by DonkeyBuster on 16 Sep 2009, 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

It makes sense.. I guess I was referring mostly to my gullibility.. And isn't empathy, to some extent, the belief that others feel the way you to? If NT empathy actually had to do with what the other person was feeling, they wouldn't misread aspies the way they do.. What THEY do seems like it's just figure that the look on my face means whatever that look would mean on their own face. (or feeling/situation.. etc) Is that not true?

Oh yeah, that's the part that floors me. It's an automatic projection, subconscious, innate and often inaccurate (even with other NTs) and yet somehow it's desirable.

Frankly, I think friendly Aspies are ahead of the pack, in that because for us such projection is not automatic, we DO Think about what the other might be feeling... there's a gap in which a question can be asked. For example: You look upset. Why?

So potentially our involvement in the exchange can lead to greater accuracy and understanding due to fewer assumptions of the other's emotional state.

Except for that part where we don't even notice...
The train has left the station and it takes an Act of Gawd! to turn it 'round.

I find this happens with me when I'm in a sort of bystander position, like the 3rd person in a conversation or something. Perhaps because I'm not directly involved there are fewer inputs to process? And I'm not sure whether it's empathy or compassion... but in any case, I'd like to be able to offer comfort or solace, but often there's some kind of block, like I don't feel I know the other well enough, or they've dismissed my kindness in the past, or ? So I usually just plaster my 'concerned' look on my face (at least I hope it looks concerned... I should probably check it in the mirror) and mutter ooo's and mmm's.

And sometimes people still respond rudely.

And they wonder why we're distant...

I'm a very sensitive person, but I generally get emotional from art, music and film rather than personal experiences. My lack of empathy comes in when someone is joyous or despairing in my company. I stay pretty neutral most of the time unless I'm being goofy with friends. The moment someone starts crying I just want to get out of the room. When my grandfather died I could hear my grandmother crying from outside. I hate hearing anyone cry. I can't comfort that, I just want to get away from it.

Your diagnosis probably says (correct me guys if I'm wrong) that you are more likely to be gullible and naive.

People could be taking advantage and you might not be aware of it.

But hey, I'm no Aspie, just saying...

I was so helpful and nice but too often it was inviting trouble.

'Nice' people are prone to abuse. Many NTs learned this the hard way.

oh wow... so... I think I might be starting to understand something important...

empathy is a cognitive ability, not a virtue?

in my mind, I equated lack of empathy with unkind, but I think I'm wrong now.

My stepson has NVLD and shows NO empathy. It frightens me. I mean nothing, absolutely none. He had his elbow in my son's neck in the backseat of the car once - he was upset because he doesn't like shoulders to touch someone else and he's a big guy, and he insists on sitting in the center rear seat so he can stare and obsess over the GPS system - so my son's shoulder rubbed against his and he elbows him in the neck, my son is saying 'stop stop Mommy help!' - I looked back and told him to stop and he wouldn't and had a big smile on his face. It was absolutely creepy.

Another time, I had absolutely the worst news, totally depressed - he knew yet greeted me with a big huge smile. I said to my husband 'I can't be around him right now! He has this big grin on his face and I want to die!'.

I know not everyone is like this but he is and I really find it scary - like when he thinks it's funny to hold my son under water and I am screaming for him to stop and he just smiles.

Lack of empathy can feel so scary, I never met anyone who didn't show it until I met him.

Grace09 that would frighten me too. Are you sure there isn't more going on? There's not responding to someones else's pain and then there's causing someone else's pain and/or taking pleasure in it.

aimless, I think you nailed it - it is like he is taking pleasure causing the pain. The thing that scares me is that he's 13, 5'2" and weighs close to 160lbs. My son is 8, 4'8" and weighs 70lbs. Yes there probably is something else going on there and I think - well I came on this site 2-3 weeks ago, and I think I've been trying to drum up the courage - but I think I'm gonna have to insist my stepson see a neuropsychologist.

It is totally freaky for a kid to be looking at the mother of the child he is inflicting pain on with a big smile on his face. I thought of that movie "The Omen" with that little kid Damien, I did, and I haven't seen that movies for ages. My mother and sister told me to enroll my son and daughter in karate classes because they are worried (my daughter is 6). There is also a baby on the way due in late Nov. I have this feeling he is picked on at school, then comes home and takes it out on my son. I've had to forbid them playing Playstation together because if my stepson loses he punches my son, but the last time that happened I told him, if you hit him again I will call the police - I remember I looked at him and said 'you are physically abusive, you are and you need to control it', he looked totally shocked at the accusation but my husband does nothing and I really feel I have no choice - but he has behaved since then. I told him, if I call the police and press charges you may be banned from contact with my son, my daughter and the baby, and he seems to have shaped up. I mean I don't want to wait until something tragic happens!

It's like there's something missing, I thought it was an empathy chip - but I really don't know what it is!

I would definitely look into having him assessed. I would insist upon it to your husband.

me too!

my son is NLVD and was delayed with being able to relate his actions with hurting people. he's 13 now and much better at it, but he's had over a year of intensive coaching in a special school. he modeled his behavior after his dad, who harasses him until he melts down and hit and screamed at me in front of him.

I think you did the right thing by telling him you'd call the police. kids have to learn there are consequences for their behavior, and it's especially difficult for some NVLD kids especially when they see other people do it.

It's like this (for many of us): we have MORE empathy yet we have no ability to read the emotions of what someone else is feeling - we WANT to be there for them, we just can't tell WHEN to help. The rest of the world knows WHEN, they just don't give a crap to help.

Advice/my opinion is simply ditto