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Raven
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14 Oct 2009, 4:29 pm

i_wanna_blue wrote:
I guess being two faced is one the things you need to be good at, in order to survive in the outside world.


This is (in my humble opinion) completely inaccurate.
By being selective of the company one keeps one needn't worry about presenting a false front. After all, acquaintances and relationships of any sort are chosen, not forced upon us.
There are numerous people in my workplace that I have a rather apathetic disposition towards- so I don't even bother with any interaction unless it involves a job or project I'm working on.
Outside of work I simply do not bother with people who's expectations would require me to be who/what I am not.
Simple as that.



Greentea
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14 Oct 2009, 4:39 pm

WritersBlock, you've restored my faith in people, thanks.


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i_wanna_blue
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14 Oct 2009, 4:58 pm

WritersBlock wrote:
i_wanna_blue wrote:
I guess being two faced is one the things you need to be good at, in order to survive in the outside world.


This is (in my humble opinion) completely inaccurate.
By being selective of the company one keeps one needn't worry about presenting a false front. After all, acquaintances and relationships of any sort are chosen, not forced upon us.
There are numerous people in my workplace that I have a rather apathetic disposition towards- so I don't even bother with any interaction unless it involves a job or project I'm working on.
Outside of work I simply do not bother with people who's expectations would require me to be who/what I am not.
Simple as that.


Well I'm glad that it isn't something that is needed in the real world. I guess my naive thinking is being shown again. I kinda look at people who seem to have it made socially, and (usually) regard their behaviour as a bench mark. I mean they must be doing something right or figured out some way to play the game. :shrug:



Greentea
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14 Oct 2009, 5:13 pm

Define "have it made" and you'll get to some brilliant insights, I assure you.


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Greentea
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14 Oct 2009, 5:16 pm

i_wanna_blue wrote:
people who seem to have it made socially


Ok, I'll give you a hint: the key of the definition is in the word "seem".


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14 Oct 2009, 6:31 pm

One thing to keep in mind: Anyone who seems adept at a particular skill rarely (and I mean RARELY) got that skill without a great deal of effort (either innate or practiced). For instance- the actors who portray roles that seem so life-like and effortless... that is a skill and a lifetime of refining that skill to make the role seem "natural" to them; or an athelet that can perform amazing acrobatics that appear almost second nature and simple. These are the result of hard work. Even people who "seem" to be able to move in and around social situations with ease (heck, for limited periods of time even I can do that) have built upon years of years of skills, over-coming deficiencies (sp?) and exaggerating positive traits.
Being "NT" does not automaticaly guarantee adeptness at social interaction just as being on the spectrum does not guarantee rainman-like skill at science, math or computer wizardry.



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15 Oct 2009, 3:00 am

Being "fake" and "two-faced" are skills. You do it in order to gain something. For istance. You don't like your boss but you must work there, you'll fake. The most difficult art to learn is not to fake but to learn when faking is the right choce and when it's not. I have a lot of co-worker that fake-friendship with my boss, actually my boss prefer me to them because he know that he can trust me more because I don't fake with you, but this depend there are people (majority) who prefer "faker".


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Greentea
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15 Oct 2009, 3:25 am

Exactly. That's why Aspies can't learn social skills. Because it's not about the rules at all. It's about the intuition (which we don't have) to read which rule to apply with whom in which situation. Aspies who've learned social rules intensively often look weird or ridiculous, because we apply them all wrong.


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Nightsun
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15 Oct 2009, 3:47 am

Well actually you can test it. Think about an experiment. Suppose that you find a new mineral and you don't know what kind of mineral it is. You know that there are some procedure like NMR or something like that. You can test it and when you know it you move according to your knowledge. Actually is all about rules, but probably you need a greater number of rules. I usually have a low-profile untill I completly understand the environment, after that I know what to do (and what I can do).

Suppose for simplicity that there are only 2 kind of people in the world.
People who like people faking
People who don't like people faking

I tried to avoid contact at first. And actually look (after readed many books about body language and things like that) one of my co-worker fake with my boss, I see my boss reaction and estimate that it's not good. After 5 co-worker did the same, now I know that he doesn't like faking and I'll not fake with him.


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i_wanna_blue
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15 Oct 2009, 4:08 am

Greentea wrote:
i_wanna_blue wrote:
people who seem to have it made socially


Ok, I'll give you a hint: the key of the definition is in the word "seem".


I guess you're saying appearances can be deceiving.



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15 Oct 2009, 4:10 am

Being "civil" to someone you don't respect is necessary for survival in some situations.... "civil" is being "polite" in a matter of fact way that doesn't compromise one's integrity. That isn't "faking" it. An example is to your "superior" at work. Hate the superior inferior thing!

Being all "friendly" to someone you don't respect is IMO "faking it". An example of this is those NETWORKING sessions where people try to pal up with others for ulterior motives.... usually self gain..... A business deal type relationship that is purely pragmatic in "style" of relating is not "faking it". Usually for mutual gain.

THe nice, or super nice to your face sort of stuff, that is insincere is "faking it" and I find it extremely deceitful behaviour.
As I am not an NT I'm not qualified to speak about how they perceive things.... I do feel that some of their "faking behaviour" comes automatically, a sort of self protection survival mechanism in general, non overthetop, cases. The over the top stuff must be very calculated... it usually comes over as manipulative. IMO that is dangerous to the well being of others ASDs or NTs alike!



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15 Oct 2009, 7:27 am

In the arena of social interaction, we are all actors.



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15 Oct 2009, 7:44 am

In the sense of All the world's a stage yes we are all actors.

Honest communication is action but not acting in the performance sense of the word.



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15 Oct 2009, 8:04 am

"faking it" is an evolutionary skill.
it has it's manifestations in all forms of evolutionarily necessary attributes including social skills.

many animals have bodily parts designed to deceive.
rattle snakes "fake it" by rattling a tasty "worm" to entice prey for example.

even camouflage is an example of "faking it". tigers have stripes only to blend in and not be noticed by their quarry.
some moths have what look like eyes on their wings to give a false impression that they are a larger animal looking at potential predators.

in humans, they both deceive for profit, and deceive to camouflage themselves from harm or embarrassment.

that is all i think about it for now



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15 Oct 2009, 8:48 am

Greentea wrote:
Willard wrote:
If world leaders didn't falsify their true intentions, global war would be constant and never ending.


Why?


Because any nation hates at least 3/4 of other nations so if anybody tell the true will be war. Is called diplomacy. Look for istance at Obama with Tibet, he had to refuse Dalai Lama in order to meet China without offending them. Do you thing that telling them "you are idiots keep Tibet in peace" will be better for human kind, I don't think so.


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15 Oct 2009, 10:28 am

Greentea wrote:
Exactly. That's why Aspies can't learn social skills.


I don't know about that. I have amassed quite a repetoire of social skills that allow me to function quite well (for short periods of time) without raising any suspicion. I'd have to respectfully disagree with "can't".