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buryuntime
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18 Nov 2009, 3:38 am

choetso wrote:
There is one thing that occurs in both "schizophrenia" and "autism"... Peptides in urine. They are not identical patterns, but both conditions can benefit immensely from cutting out milk (and gluten!) in diet. A peptide called casomorphine (from casein in milk) is present in both, but especially in "schizophrenia". Are these conditions symptoms of enzyme deficiency? We cannot break down certain proteins, and some of them break down into neuroactive peptides (exorphins) that mess with our brains? Very probably so. Yes. Milk casein from cows milk. Try to avoid. And gluten from wheat, rye, barley. Oats are often ok.
So why enzyme breakdown does not work? Could be genetic, could be environmental. Heavy metals could do this. We are unfortunately exposed to mercury, lead etc more and more.
Check up your heavy metal status.
But even conservers as benzoates and certain colorings in food can give inhibition of the enzyme cutting milk/gluten proteins. The enzyme called dpp4 is suspected. Breaks peptide bonds between proline residues. For the biochemically interested. ;-)

I do not understand this. I do not consume dairy and avoid gluten yet I have not "improved" one bit. Your post doesn't sound one bit accurate.



Danielismyname
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18 Nov 2009, 4:23 am

Rarely, people born with an ASD can develop chronic/frequent hallucinations and/or delusions in the teenage or adult years which then warrants an extra label, but as I said, it's not common. This would constitute a "double hit", just like an ASD and OCD.



b9
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18 Nov 2009, 11:20 am

UrchinStar47 wrote:
b9 wrote:
UrchinStar47 wrote:
b9 wrote:
i would think my autism shields me from psychosis in a way.

According to Tony Attwood, in The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome, there is no influence between conditions, they are completely independent.

ok. the guru of AS (who is NT) states i am wrong so i guess i must be.
how can i argue with "Him" ?

Actually it is a simple statistical calculation, probably done by someone else.


i simply said i would "think" my autism protects me "in a way" from psychotic beliefs.
then you inferred i was wrong with an excerpt from the AS bible written by a non AS man.
i was not arguing against research or data, i was just stating what i think about myself.
you can not tell me i am wrong to think as i do because it is not written in the attwood bible.
honestleeeee.....

UrchinStar47 wrote:
b9 wrote:
i am very skeptical about what i personally do not calculate to be true, so i am unlikely to be convinced of any "reality" without reasoning it for myself, and that is a hedge against psychosis and if attwood says otherwise then i will remain correct in my silence.


Good, now you can chase down other references.



well i have no idea what you are trying to say there.
i was talking in that snippet quote of mine you posted, about believing the validity of any voice i may hear inside my head in a delusion.
i was saying that if ever i heard voices, that i would disagree with their ideas and then ignore them and so they can not control me.

i do not ever talk referentially. i never quote texts which i have googled minutes before to sound smart.

forget about responding to me because i am not who you think i am and so your comments air aimed in the wrong direction.



Jono
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18 Nov 2009, 2:58 pm

I've heard that psychosis can be caused by certain medications that could be prescribed to ASD individuals who have been misdiagnosed. But you may have to look up which ones.



TPE2
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18 Nov 2009, 8:06 pm

UrchinStar47 wrote:
b9 wrote:
UrchinStar47 wrote:
b9 wrote:
i would think my autism shields me from psychosis in a way.

According to Tony Attwood, in The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome, there is no influence between conditions, they are completely independent.

ok. the guru of AS (who is NT) states i am wrong so i guess i must be.
how can i argue with "Him" ?

Actually it is a simple statistical calculation, probably done by someone else.


I have some doubts about these statisticals. Why? Because:

Imagine four groups of people with AS:

1) People with AS who developed psychosis before being diagnosed with AS

2.1) People with AS who developed psychosis after being diagnosed with AS

2.2) People diagnosed with AS who will develop a psychosis in the future

3) People diagnosed with AS who will never develop a psychosis

[of course, groups 2.2 and 3 are undistiguible before the "2.2" becomes "2.1"]

Now -

- Group 1 will never be diagnosed with AS (because they already have a condition that precludes AS)

- Most people in groups 2 are yet in group 2.2, because AS is very recent recognized condition, most diagnosis are made in children and psychosis only appears later.

Then, comparing groups 3 and 2.2 with group 2.1 (instead of group 3 with groups 1,2.1 and 2.2) you will see a AS-psychosis connection lower that it is in reality.



Maggiedoll
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18 Nov 2009, 10:23 pm

^^ good point.

Of course, I'm not sure of what the statistics are, but even if the statistics were the same on the percentage of people with ASDs and psychosis as NTs with psychosis, the statistic wouldn't mean that there weren't things about ASDs that decrease the chance of psychosis... only that there could be something else that simultaneously increases the chance. What b9 said could be true, while things like trauma from being treated like crap increase the risk of psychosis in other people with ASDs. A statistic being the same doesn't mean that the two don't influence each other at all, only that the influences balance out.



AnnePande
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19 Nov 2009, 12:28 pm

When I was 14 (in 1992), a psychologist, I used to go to, presumed that I might be in danger of developing a psychosis / schizophrenia. (AS wasn't a diagnosis back then).
But I never did that. :D She must have mistaken some aspie-like things for being in-danger-of-developing-a-psychosis-like.



Maggiedoll
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19 Nov 2009, 1:34 pm

AnnePande wrote:
She must have mistaken some aspie-like things for being in-danger-of-developing-a-psychosis-like.

Very, very likely.
Also why so may people who are undiagnosed end up getting tossed onto antipsychotics. Things like odd mannerisms, trouble relating to people, unusual speech patterns, etc., can be easily interpreted as features of a psychotic disorder, even if there's no actual psychosis. They are things that tend to go along with psychotic disorders. (You'd think somebody might realize that if you have those things, but no psychosis, the possibility of an ASD should be investigated.. But how can you ever get doctors educated about it when the pharmaceutical companies are paying to convince them that everybody has conditions that they should prescribe expensive drugs for? Anybody who tried to set up some kind of way to educate doctors about ASDs would encounter huge resistance from big pharma.)



Magnus
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20 Nov 2009, 2:13 am

I know that when I doubt things which I believe and get confused over the reality of situations, I will imagine things/dream up scenarios to fill in the blanks/delude myself in order to make sense of what seems to be a confusing situation. Oftentimes people lie and I've learned that it is better to trust my gut rather than allow words to get in the way. I had some problems after I doubted myself. It's a downward spiral from there.

Communication is mostly non-verbal but we are told to believe only the words that come from people and we all know that people are basically self interested apes who pretend to be civilized all the while they are harboring endless secrets. Perhaps it is best to simplify life by pretending to believe everything at face value while guarding our inner thoughts and having faith in ourselves. The less intuitive a person is the harder it is to handle AS because to take things literally would drive anyone insane because so much about people is false.

I do want to read that book now, The Imprinting Brain. Thanks for the recommendation.


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BoringAaron
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20 Nov 2009, 2:29 am

I seem to be the least emotionally disturbed or psychotically inclined of all people I know. But before this year, I knew nothing about AS and I often wondered about the possibility that I was just suppressing my emotions so deeply that I had no awareness of them. But now I realize that I probably just don't have as many emotions as NTs.



RarePegs
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20 Nov 2009, 7:27 am

RarePegs wrote:
Check out to what extent autistic symptoms concur with schizophrenic symptoms, particularly in the negative and cognitive symptoms:

http://www.schizophrenia.com/diag.php


For comparison, here is another schizophrenia symptoms site:

http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guid ... toms-types



AnnePande
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20 Nov 2009, 2:02 pm

Maggiedoll wrote:
AnnePande wrote:
She must have mistaken some aspie-like things for being in-danger-of-developing-a-psychosis-like.

Very, very likely.
Also why so may people who are undiagnosed end up getting tossed onto antipsychotics. Things like odd mannerisms, trouble relating to people, unusual speech patterns, etc., can be easily interpreted as features of a psychotic disorder, even if there's no actual psychosis. They are things that tend to go along with psychotic disorders. (You'd think somebody might realize that if you have those things, but no psychosis, the possibility of an ASD should be investigated.. But how can you ever get doctors educated about it when the pharmaceutical companies are paying to convince them that everybody has conditions that they should prescribe expensive drugs for? Anybody who tried to set up some kind of way to educate doctors about ASDs would encounter huge resistance from big pharma.)


That's interesting.
But in my case I guess the reason was simply that there wasn't the knowledge about ASDs that is available today. Eg. AS wasn't an official diagnosis before 1994, and maybe even then, people weren't aware what a spectrum it was?
Even the guy who diagnosed me in 2007, at first didn't believe that I might have it because I wasn't like the other aspies he had seen... also because I said I could read faces quite well, and didn't know if I had obsessions (I found out later!). And he knew one that knew the bus plan by heart and "that was proper Aspergers". Hmmmm? I regret I didn't ask if it didn't count to know the Hymn Book by heart? :lol: (Which I can't literally, but know a lot of hymns and other songs by heart.)



oppositedirection
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24 Nov 2009, 6:25 pm

I've heard that autism is sometimes mistakenly diagnosed as schizophrenia due to literally interpreting thoughts as voices. When you have thoughts there is a voice in your head, taken literally then that means you are hearing voices. No idea how common this mistake is but apparently it happens.

Beyond that, my brother is schizophrenic so I've always assumed there might be some similar genetic causes and/or biological similarities.


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Maggiedoll
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24 Nov 2009, 6:56 pm

oppositedirection wrote:
I've heard that autism is sometimes mistakenly diagnosed as schizophrenia due to literally interpreting thoughts as voices. When you have thoughts there is a voice in your head, taken literally then that means you are hearing voices. No idea how common this mistake is but apparently it happens.

That's a good point too.

I don't think I went to quite that extent, but I think there were a lot of things that I did that were similar. I'd have trouble understanding the intention of a question, or the significance of a question, or what was expected. Also, I was always trying to figure out what would make people accept me more, trying out things that I thought might make me fit in better.

Probably a lot of psychological testing just doesn't apply to people on the autism spectrum, especially if it's not known (and taken into account) that the person is on the spectrum to begin with.