Why don't NTs ever give concrete expectations?

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I hate the lack of precision when it comes to NTs having conversations. Precision is critical for me. In a way, I'm like Microsoft Word. Unless you can precisely identify what's going on, that squiggly line will remain.

then allow me to decode for you right now:

"first, let's get sh*t-faced drunk. second, let's get it on. third, let's start discussing politics so that way we matter in this world"

at least....that's the same sh*t I always seem to hear.

I will tell you why the reason we do not get it. There are multiple meanings without the every last excruciating detail. There are multiple ways to apply these individual meanings as well.

How is it common knowledge if there are multiple meanings in which there are multiple applications to each of these meanings? Do you see our dillema here?

Here is another question that I have. If the common knowledge or common sense that most people seem to have about something is proven wrong then how was it ever common sense. In fact, why should I personally consider common sense reliable?

And why do some people get irritated when we ask for more instructions? Why do they assume we aren't listening when we try and clarify what we understand to make sure we understood?

I always love it when I hear bosses say "If you have any questions, just ask." They want us to do our jobs right so they want us to ask them questions so we can do our jobs right in case we didn't understand what they told us to do. It be ironic if they got mad at us for that. I even wonder if none aspies have this same difficulty too or else some bosses and teachers wouldn't be saying if we have any questions, just ask. If we don't understand something, just ask. I heard lot of people don't ask questions because they are ashamed to so I am sure they struggle in this area too. Thats why teachers and bosses tell people to just ask if they don't understand something. Even I have gotten ashamed to ask questions myself because so many people have gotten mad at me for it and accuse me of not listening I just got tired of it so I do it less now and try and think outside the box and read between the lines. I try and break out of that habit when I hear "If you have any questions, just ask."
But I do ask at work. It's a job for people with disabilities so they can't get mad at me for asking right? It be ironic if my supervisor did get mad.

OK, and I understand that. But you also have to see the other side of the coin.

Another poster somewhere on the site here (who has AS) recently had a post about a trip to a museum (I think that's what it was) where she was paired w/another person/w AS (whom she did not know) because the person who was organizing the trip thought that it would be easier for her to be with someone who thought similarly to the way she did.

She said that when it was all said & done it was a very trying day & that it was irritating as heck to have to deal w/this other persons AS behavior. She saw for the first time why NT's sometime get frustrated and lose their patience when trying to explain something.

Imagine if you were trying to explain some directions to someone who was a notch or two higher on the spectrum than yourself. Things that even you took for granted as common knowledge would have to be spelled out in great detail. Can't you see how that would get tiring?

That's all I'm saying. That most NT's just can't imagine that someone wouldn't get a phrase like "the other side of the coin" to be anything other than an expression meaning
"the other perspective on the situation is...." & not anything actually to do with a message on the backside of a coin. : )

Wow. I'm so glad you asked this question. This is a big problem of mine. I started college in January & have had nothing but trouble from professors who expect me to know what they want me to do without even explaining it. I need very clear, concise instructions in order to do anything properly. If I don't know every single detail of how I'm supposed to do something, I end up doing it the wrong way. I'm never given direct details of how things are supposed to be done & when I explained to my English professor that I have a very hard time understanding what's expected of me without clear directions, he said "I don't know how I can make myself any more clear" although he hasn't made himself a bit clear. I'm tired of people expecting me to be psychic & to know what they want from me, when I'm not even being told.

I had to analyze my own thought patterns for a bit to figure out what is happening here (I am NT). I think what it is is a form of probability analysis. Although any given thing has multiple meanings and multiple ways to apply those meanings, the comon thing that most people do subconsciously is to pick the meaning that is statistically the most probable one and go with it. This is no guarentee of picking the right meaning but it does increase the likelihood of picking the right meaning enough to be acceptably more efficient. Not that anybody thinks all that through. They just pick the meaning with the highest probability of being right with no conscious awareness of doing so. (I had to "observe" myself thinking about meanings to see this.)

Perhaps the Aspie way is to be so focused on knowing the absolute right meaning that a sort of decision paralysis sets in as there is a subconscious resistance to picking the most probably meaning because there is still a chance it could be wrong. But all that would be subconscious and consciously it would just feel like "I don't know what you mean". A difference I am slowly coming to see between AS and NT is the AS need for precision and the NT way of sacrificing precision for speed and efficiency. Sometimes precision is important, but any time it can be sacrificed for speed and efficiency- for an NT it will be. This means conversational and instructional shortcuts because most of the time "likely right" is as good as "absolutely guarenteed to be right" and it's faster too. Sometimes precision is necessary (then the Aspie thrives) but sometimes precision is too slow and cumbersome (then the Aspie flounders).

Upthread somebody gave an example of greater precision in lab safety intructions (although another poster begged to differ). That's what I'm talking about. If lives are on the line based on precision- there will be precision. But if it's only dinner that is on the line (for example), ambiguity is embraced because it gets dinner on the table faster.

I really don't see this clash stopping because it's a wiring clash. NT people are not going to change their (our) wiring and suddenly cease doing subconscious probability analysis. And AS people are not going to suddenly embrace ambiguity and start subconsciously thinking "close enough" in order to make speedier and more efficient decisions. Best to just accept that these differences will continue because they are neurological and ask people to spell things out rather than getting angry that they don't automatically do so.

"Common sense" is actually consensus sense. Something is considered "common sense" if it is acted upon or believed by the majority of people. It is nothing more than shared understanding. When a shared understanding is in place, people wonder why you do not share it. When it gets abandoned because of new findings (such as the finding that the earth revolves around the sun, which doesn't seem logical if you have nothing to go on but human eyeball input), it ceases being shared and ceases being common sense. This doesn't mean that everything considered "common sense" will eventually be abandoned as wrong. Some shared knowledge is repeatedly proven to be correct, such as the common sense shared knowledge that an object will fall towards earth if dropped.

I see what you're saying and you make sense. I never thought of it that way. I do understand the expression "the other side of the coin."

This is a problem indeed. There must be a way to create a win-win out of all of this. I want both the giver of directions and receiver of directions to benefit. I do have some suggestions myself that I'm trying to apply to myself.

1. Maybe we can use google and look these expressions up.
2. We need to follow George Orwell's rules of "Politics and the english Language." http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm
3. No human being is perfect. We all make mistakes, ASD or NT. This is statement that is true and logical. When we do, just simply apologize.
4. I go by two things. I know nothing and I know I know nothing. Like Socrates, I am ignorant and I am aware of my own ignornace.
5. Take everything as a learning experience and if you do fail figure out why you did fail so there is no repeat?
6. Be a big believer in Murphy's law and factor it in when you make plans.
7. Be a bit better than the previous day. Take Commander Data's attitude on Star Trek.
8. Put everything into "I" context.

Do you have anymore suggestions?

Janissy, this a brilliant observation, and I expect to quote you in the future, with your permission!

Go right ahead. I'm delighted somebody made sense out of that long winded post.

construction foremen expect concrete.
they are usually not autistic.

Janissy, are you sure you're not AS yourself? Everything you have said makes perfect sense to me. You're brilliant.



Janissy, this makes perfect sense to me now. Now I'm beginning to understand. I've been thinking about the same thing. I've analyzed my own thought patterns as well. I'm about precisness as well. Is there a way to create a win-win from all of this in which NTs and ASs can both benefit and there are no losers?



I understand. With the dinner, I say it is well worth the wait. That's just my opinion though.



I like your phrase "probability analysis." I say it fits. Maybe, I can try to do that as well. Here is the problem with asking. Some people will get rude and say "I should know this, that's common sense, or they consider you an idiot." What is the best resolution for this?



I understand what you're saying about common sense. It's used as an insult towards us. People will say we lack common sense. Now that you've defined it for me it will be less insulting. I thank you for that. You are correct some shared knowledge is correct. Maybe the best way to look at it is different cultures lack common sense towards other cultures. Could I say this is a valid statement.

Yet another brilliant post by Janissy.

Part of what can get really funny is when Aspies start experimenting with the probability analysis approach -- having less consensus sense, the Aspie's notion of the most probable interpretation can come out radically different from what NTs would come up with. I speak from much experience. ^_^

Oh yes. Things that are "common sense" in one culture are "just plain nuts" in another culture. That's why I call it consensus sense. It's really just a group agreement that certain things are true. And if you are a member of the group (even if just by birth) you are expected to share in these group agreements. This causes culture clashes constantly.

Sigh. Months posting here and I still can't get embedded quotes right. Hopefully people cantell who said what.

I was told I lacked common sense at my old job by a co worker. He didn't really say it, he just told me I wasn't using it and it's common sense to know X. I was told it's common sense to know saying my aunt is cheap is not okay so that's why it was funny my husband said and the fact my dad was caught saying it to me. They say we lack it because we don't pick up on hidden things or learn things on our own unless we are told them or taught it. Also the fact we might take someone's irony literal like I did with the word cheap when my mom was calling herself that because she was being frugal with her money.

But I say everyone lacks common sense because there are sure lot of stupid people in the world. I always thought my common sense is pretty good but then decided I lack it then since that's what I have been told but hey doesn't everyone? At least I do have it but lack it from time to time when I fail to read between the lines or fail to know something everyone else would know.

That is not always the case. I have been told by my NT relatives, on several occasions what they wished of me.

Some people are explicit.

ruveyn