Individuals wishing to be afflicted with Asperger's Syndrome

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This does not seem to be progressing as I expected (probably my fault for not articulating the concepts correctly). I'm leaving.

That is very true, some with aspergers are gregarious and do have empathy, but its also true that no 2 people on the spectrum
will have the same attributes, my self for example, I am very socially awkward, but I have very strong feelings of empathy for people.

I think one reason that it isn't is actually that quite a lot of people on WP are defensive about having/being autistic/AS, ( it has been difficult to get dx, they haven't got a dx, they have been criticised for believing that they have it, because it's seen as a cop-out/excuse, etc ) , and because there have been/often are, threads posted by new members, which either suggest that the whole dx is dubious/a fake, or that many people on WP are faking it, ( sometimes the thread is just stirring up trouble for fun, and other times it is someone who is genuinely angry or upset about what seems to them like unfair treatment, or artificial privileges etc associated with it ). So some people may be reacting as if you may also be attacking their dx, the "reality" of AS, etc.

At least that is my understanding of why your thread is not progressing as you thought. Although I agree that your explanation has been slightly obscure. I am guilty of same sometimes.

Am wondering if your first example of a "supposed wannabe" is yourself? Not as criticism of your probable/possible ASness, but because according to your opening post and explanations it would be perfectly possible to be be AS and experience this relief at finding an explanation, a simplifying mechanism/theory.
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Last edited by ouinon on 01 Dec 2009, 4:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

Well said, ouinon.


M.

My point is to question your motivation about concern about 'fakers.' Someone may worry all day about, say, black people killing them, and never think about the fact that some white people who might try to kill them too. Why are they worried in such a way? They can say, "well I'm just concerned about scenario A, although I know scenario B could also happen (but I have no concern about it)," but they'd be missing the point if they said that.

This would be regarded as projection, perhaps. However, I am inclined to disagree with this applied to me on the basis that I intensely oppose my diagnosis of AS. I do not believe that I have AS, but I am thought to have it to the formality of psychiatry.

I'm not attacking their condition here. I admit I am interested in the motivation of self-diagnosis, though. Some will be right, others will be wrong. It will all vary and I'm curious if anyone has an opinion on where they are upon this complex scale.

Of course, but my interest is not relating to the other aspects able to be contemplated. I acknowledge they exist and potentially exist within a framework which includes the element I've pinpointed, but I'm not interested in them. I'm not denying they exist, I'm focusing on an element for a possible analysis.

Please stop assuming that I have any concern. It's CURIOSITY and an INTEREST - no emotions.

Could we have an English transcript of this please?

I am wondering if people on the spectrum may be more prone to this sort of behaviour than NT's, since simplifying, systemising, categorising ideas, people and objects is ( I think ) one of the classic aspects of it! The tidiness, the clarity, the order, and explanation, in the A dx could appeal to someone on the spectrum.

I suppose that an NT might also appreciate the "simplicity in their understanding of themselves" but I think that the need to understand is likely to be far more piercing, urgent, and persistent in someone on the spectrum precisely because of their experience and wiring. I also think that it is more likely to be someone on the spectrum who is seeking insight, because so many of us have been struggling with the mystery of our uneven abilities, ( among other things ), in a way that I suspect most NTs don't.

And the people most in search of "meaning and reason " ... I get the impression that whereas most NTs get this with other people, in company, in traditional social structures, it is people on the spectrum who are most likely to look for, and find, it in dry abstract/intellectual frameworks and structures.

In fact I wonder whether the welcome of the dx, so often expressed on here, isn't in fact likely to be something somewhat specific to people on the spectrum, precisely because of what being autistic/aspie means. And therefore you may have pressed a very sensitive button, for a lot of us, a lurking unease about how very very relieved and glad we are to find out about having what "should" seem like a "black mark", a "disability"/DSM-defined "difference".

And this may be why so many NTs have so much difficulty understanding the way many of us react to the the data about autism and aspergers/the dx, as a "blessing" almost; NTs see this as a sign of our simply finding excuses, or of our wanting to belong to a club, etc, whereas for many of us the data about the spectrum, and/or the dx, satisifies something profound in us, a need for ( intellectual ) frameworks/systems to understand people ( incl ourselves ) with.

PS. I think that in this respect the experience of the non-dx'd, or only recently dx'd as an adult, is likely to be very different to those who were dx'd in childhood or very early adulthood. When were you dx'd?

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Last edited by ouinon on 01 Dec 2009, 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thank you. Your response is the first one I have truly appreciated. =)

"I want to talk about my belief that many stupid people fake having ASDs. I believe these people learn the symptoms and make their own behaviour fit. If you want to tell me I'm wrong, use big words."

It also follows that some people not on the spectrum, but trying to understand themselves, ( because of difficulties that they have ), may discover/examine the concept of autism/aspergers and think that they may be autistic, because it seems to explain a great many things about themselves and their experience, but where the DSM is useful, in terms of the "label" anyway, ( because it clearly states all the things which you must "have"/experience in order to qualify ), is that at this point anyone who genuinely desires to understand themselves, ( is not hiding something from themselves ), will realise whether or not it really applies to them or not.

It is possible that someone non-autistic may feel as if it the explanation/category is close enough, ( about fundamental characteristics ) for it be of significant use in understanding themselves, and that it does not matter if it isn't an exact match. I think that this is where the "social construct" aspect of the autism dx comes in; is it "real" only if it is an official diagnosis? Are the "behaviours" which psychiatrists have chosen to group together under this heading in the DSM caused by similar, or by many very different, underlying biochemical "situations/conditions"? What is the purpose of a dx? What does it mean to be labelled "disordered/disabled" in our society? etc ...

It is however possible that someone ( non-autistic ) who does, for instance, want to "belong", as criss said, to a group, or to excuse something about their behaviour, may persuade themselves that they do match the criteria when in fact they do not, and spontaneously/quite unconsciously act out the "required" behaviours in order to belong to the group, and/or as you said, indulge even more in those which fit the classification, while suppressing/concealing/downplaying those which don't. Someone might see the dx as giving them so much, ( a community, excuses, [ esp if another explanation for their behaviour may be mental illness ], etc ), that the possible disadvantages in believing that one is"afflicted" by a lifelong disability are far outweighed.

PS. I believe that one of the most important aspects of the autism dx, especially the HFA/AS/spectrum aspect of it, why it is so powerful, and attractive, a label, is that it is determinist, in a world which teaches us that we have "free will", ( which I don't believe exists ). It suggests that all kinds of behaviour, not just destructive ones, but also harmless, even highly positive, behaviours are the result of genes and environment. I know that this was a huge factor in my identifying with it. I think many people are hungry for a recognition that the universe determines their behaviour, that noone is either "blameworthy" or "praiseworthy", and the A dx does so. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation, a social construct which enlightens.

NB. See Derk Pereboom's excellent book "Living Without Free Will".
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Last edited by ouinon on 01 Dec 2009, 7:00 am, edited 4 times in total.

You clarified upon my thinking very well. Thank you.

This is highly offensive to me and a misrepresentation of the concept conveyed...

i can not say for this forum. but i know it happens in real life because i have seen it a few times. people very desperate to be diagnosed as aspergers. people who have considered suicide after being denied a diagnosis of AS (this person had many deep issues, AS wasn't one of them). i've seen people who are self-diagnosed lose hope with themselves and their lives because they went in for a formal assessment, and it turned out not to be an ASD. it is a very sad situation.

BUT i do not think it is a case of wanting to be afflicted with AS, i think it is a case of people finding answers to questions and being scared that it may not actually be the answer. that is why people are so disappointed if their assessment "goes wrong" because they considered AS to be "the answer".

THIS POST IS BASED ON MY PERSONAL REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES - anyone who has a problem with that, keep that in mind.

I don't think so, it sounds very fair to me, not the opinion of a troll. If anything it might be someone who wants to troll but is actually curious and let the curiosity win when making this post. (I've done that.)