How did you distinguish between playful teasing and bullying

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I have always found it very difficult to distinguish the two.

My ex-husband used to slap my face really hard (enough to leave marks) when I first married him and he'd be laughing at the same time and I didn't know if he was joking or actually wanting to hurt me and I'd be crying from the pain and he'd keep slapping me and laughing and later on when he would be in a good mood I would tell him that I didn't like it and he'd say to me, "I was only playing with you, you silly chick!" or he would just say, "Your over-reacting Babe! I love you, I would never hurt you would I?" But it would only be days or hours later that he'd do it again and every single time I didn't know if he was serious or not because he would be laughing while doing it and he would say afterwards that he was only playing with me. This was only months into our marriage and within six months it had escalated to him kicking me repeatedly, him pouring boiling water over my arm, punching, breaking my wrist and a whole lot of other stuff. Even at that point I didn't know what to think of it all because most of the time he would laugh and I couldn't understand why someone would laugh while hurting someone else unless they didn't understand how much it hurt the other person or unless they were joking. It's taken me years to come to the conclusion that his laughing was probably a sadistic laugh and that he knew what he was doing and wasn't joking...

As a teenager I had the same problem with my family but in thinking they were attacking me verbally - they would tease me and I would think they were being mean to me - and to this day I still don't know if what they would say was really being mean or if it was just teasing. I don't know? My father would tell me to lighten up and so I would think there must be something wrong with me for taking it so personally, but I couldn't help but feel hurt when he would say that stuff about my weight.

These days I still find it hard to distinguish the two, but I tend to just laugh it off when someone says or does something that is either nasty or that's the way I've interpreted it. An ex-boyfriend would say stuff about how I must have a guy hiding somewhere in my house, and I would just laugh it off, as what else do I say? What do I do? It really hurt yeah, but I don't know if what he was saying was actually nasty or if I was just over-reacting to it.

Then there are other times like when I'm at TAFE when other students will laugh at my coca-cola addiction (I drink way too much) and I just laugh it off, and although I'm not hurt by their comments, I still feel unsure as to whether it is meant in a good manner or not. Like I know that most people are beautiful inside and don't want to hurt others, but I don't always know how to take it, you know?

Honestly, I think that there is a difference but while playful teasing is acceptable, it cannot be too much. It cannot be physically painful and if somebody has to say "Just kidding" after saying something offensive then it's bulklying, but subtle.

I hate "Just kidding". My mother says it after laughing at me for my Autistic traits. People always think "Just kidding" is an excuse. It isn't.

I don't think most people are "beautiful" inside. Most people have an agenda. Maybe 50% of people are genuinely nice. This generation seems to have around 20% people who are genuinely nice. And TAFE? What are you studying?

I am studying a Bachelor of Criminology through uni, and through TAFE last year I was studying Business, and again this year I will also be studying Business at TAFE.
I am genuinely nice - I am human and everyone else is human, so why wouldn't most of other human's I interact with also be genuinely nice? Maybe it is just naive thinking on my part I don't know...

I think I'm genuinely nice and generally don't assume others have a hidden agenda but people are constantly telling me they do. My mind doesn't operate that way and my thoughts are life is hard enough to figure out why make it more difficult on purpose? I'm far from perfect but I've had more than a few tell me I'm too nice. Which of course just means people take advantage of me. Sometimes I realize it and just go ahead and help them out anyway. I remember my father was always saying "You can't trust anybody" and I decided I didn't want to live with that mindset. I guess there are a substantial number of people in either category. The trick is figuring out which is which. Sometimes the ones that are the friendliest at first are the ones you've got to watch out for.

Here's a different angle that you could take, that I don't think that I read about in earlier posts in this thread --

You could join your son in "teasing" your husband, to show him how. This does two things:

1. Gives a "shared experience" -- you and your son practicing teasing toward your husband
2. Brings some of the "power" of teasing to your son, where he is the "agressor" and your husband is the "receiver".

Sometimes I think that people on the spectrum misinterpret teasing as a POWER thing -- there is always an agressor (the person doing the teasing) and a victim (the person receiving the teasing). But if you think about it, NT's tease each other as a way to show that they LIKE each other. Not always, of course (middle school situations come to mind), but much of the time. Mean-spirited teasing usually happens when the receiver is alone, and the agressor has a crowd to show off to. Kind-spirited teasing is more even -- either between two individuals, or at least between two groups with even numbers.

We've been teasing our two sons on the spectrum since they were very young. We had more success at this with our older son who is higher up on the spectrum, and he is now skilled at teasing (but not always so skilled at knowing when he has taken the teasing too far). Our younger son is more sensistive, more kind, and inclined to not notice when others are truly being unkind. Just yesterday, I gave him an example of his sister teasing her father, and said that he was more than welcome to do the same. Especially if the father figure has high self-esteen and can handle it, he is the perfect person to direct "teasing practice" towards. Then, as your son becomes more proficient, he can spread this experience to teasing Mom, older siblings, REALLY GOOD family friends, etc.

One would think that teasing wouldn't be a great skill to teach, but unfortunately, in the NT world, proficiency at kind, non-threatening teasing is a skill that really helps with friendships, flirting, and bonding. A good, even quirky sense of humor can take a boy a very long way in high school, college, and work relationships.

I hope that this helps.

I have trouble with that as well, but what I found was my friends and family were not willing to quit "playful" teasing when it upset me. That's a bigger issue than someone with AS misunderstanding it. They should feel safe in that when they express themselves and ask that the teasing stop, the person teasing them should stop. Otherwise it's not playful anymore and it really is bullying.

To me this is fairly simple, bullying is hurting someone's feelings, teasing isn't. If you tease someone when you know they don't get it and will be hurt it isn't teasing, it's bullying. You aren't teasing your son, you are bullying him.

Why would you even want to tease him? No good could possibly come from this, teasing is a backwards way of bonding.

re: the bolded part. He doesn't get it. If this is a neurologically based syndrome it's not fair to expect him to. I'm having a strong emotional reaction to this post because I was like this too.

I really don't like your husband's approach. He needs to understand what 'neurological' means. Would he try to 'teach' a blind child to see, or a deaf child to hear?

My adult understanding of this, which it has taken me literally my entire life to figure out, is this: people like to 'test' you to see if they can 'get a reaction'.Many NT people generally don't 'react' or internalize the "teasing" so they are not made targets of this kind of behavior as often as spectrum people are. They know how to "not take it personally". Some people on the spectrum, like me and possibly like your son, can't discern the meaning of 'not taking it personally' or 'internalizing' it so we react to all criticism the same way. I am 41 years old and my personal experience is that this is not a part of my personality that I am capable of changing. If I could have changed it, I would surely succeeded because god knows I tried hard enough. It does. not. compute. in. my. brain.

My coping with this came through psychology and understanding what terms like transference, projection, displacement, etc, meant. I really had to intellectualize that whole kind of relating to even begin to understand it. The only thing I have been able to change is my reactions to the behavior. In general, I have learned to react less, but sometimes I still react strongly because I continue to believe that the way my brain tells me to react is the way I should react. My only suggestion would be that it might be helpful to tell your son that it's okay if he can't tell whether the "teasing" is good-natured (is teasing ever really purely good-natured?), and that it's okay if he wants to wait a while to react before he is sure about it. That much of the time in life it's best to wait a while before we react, and sometimes, no matter what the motive of the other person is, it's best not to react at all. I wish when I was growing up that someone had given me the encouragement and permission to react in the way that was in my best interest in situations. But I didn't understand all that at the time. I reacted with 'my truth' which is what your son is doing. My thinking is take the focus off concepts that he can't right now and may never understand and put the focus on giving him the tools to react (externally, whatever internal reaction he has should be validated) in the manner that will be in his best interest in the long-term.

Speaking from personal experience, yes.

Along with that, though, teasing isn't really one thing, but multiple related things. Teasing can be a bonding thing, and it can be a distancing thing, and those are really two separate things. Related enough to have the same name, but, still, different.

Bonding teasing says "I recognize your flaws, but I accept you fully even with those flaws". And a person doing this kind of teasing will stop if it doesn't work.

Still impossible for me to discern the two, as is determining if someone is being serious or satirical unless they demonstrate repeated overt signs, such as eyewinks or greatly exaggerated verbal cues.

Yelled at my very eldery dad a couple weeks ago because I couldn't tell that he was trying to kid with me. But damn it, he should know better by now.

I have really mixed feelings about this.

I don't like teasing much, and really didn't get the point for a long time. then I did, and can even manage to tease other people sometimes but I'm always really afraid of hurting their feelings. in general I'm a really serious person. teasing me will not inspire me to bond with you, in fact I'll develop a distrust of you and if you are excessive I'll end up trying to avoid you or I'll go all aspergers on you and stare silently at you until you're so uncomfortable you'll avoid me because I'm creepy.

I do think understanding how to deal with teasing is an obstacle for us, and I think teaching him how to deal with it is good, but not without his full consent and knowledge. don't tease him first and clue him in after. it won't build up his immunity, it'll just rub a sore spot raw.

I like the idea of helping him tease his dad, or invite him to tease you and ask him if you can tease him and tell him to come up with an appropriate comeback (could be just a smile). the brain needs training and practice to deal with teasing but without understanding the why and how it's just going to hurt him. I don't know that you need to get a professional to help, but I certainly wouldn't proceed without your son's informed consent.

Step,

If you are SO smart, PLEASE tell us a LEGITIMATE way to deermine which it is! Some people have told LIES to me, and apparently TRULY believe them so even THAT isn't a good way to determine it.

HECK, I live in the US, and a HUGE group told TONS of LIES and wanted to ram stuff down our throats.. They even said another group was UNDEMOCRATIC, and UNPATRIOTIC! Well, they were SHOCKED to find that they LOST what they thought they NEVER would lose. They lost it because of the LIES, BRIBES, and ONE SIDED agreements! One guy flew back half way around the world to try and STOP the opponent! He probably STILL doesn't realize that he actually helped the opponent win. He basically said the opponent was honest, telling the truth, and COULD do what he claimed. ONE PERSON last 1/19, and it looks like he ALREADY acheived the goal that his opponents said he couldn't. As for unpatriotic? A similar event CREATED this country!

So the NTs can't evven tell such simple and obvious things, so how do you discern between teasing and bullying

I wasn't able to distinguish between the two as a child/teenager, although based on the verbal abuse (I was tall enough not be suffer physical bullying) I am inclined to believe that it was intentionally cruel bullying.

I still struggle with this.

I was out with my best friend the other day and he said something which I thought was a serious question but which was in fact a joke.

It may be a result of the AS tendency to 'take things literally'

Unless I am in an ad-lib dialogue with someone I often don't spot humor, DESPITE the fact that I have both written and delivered stand-up comedy.

There is a lovely line in 'Mozart and the Whale' where Isabel invites Donald to;

'Call me'

to which he, with child like innocence replies;

'When'

I think it's bullying unless I trust the person and have been friends with them for a while...

Sometimes there's a fine line between the two. Some people can be quite vicious under the guise of "just kidding." I guess if you can both have a laugh then it's playful. I've learned to laugh at myself so if someone wants to tease me about being a space cadet then I'm not going to be offended.