04 Dec 2004, 5:55 pm
Cindy wrote:
For those of us too far removed from our Welsh ancestry to pronounce your name properly, could you tell us how it might be spelled in phonetic English, please? 
Well there's a slight problem Cindy insofar as the Welsh "u" sound (which in this case is represented by "y" which is one of the rare variables in what is otherwise an unusually phonetic alphabet; but I expect you knew that?) doesn't have an equivalent in English (nor Yank) so for you linguists, it's the neutral position between the Dutch "u" and the German "ü" and is to my mind the most natural of sounds, so I don't understand why it isn't more common.
Anyway, the "w" in Welsh is pronounced as a short "oo", so the closest I can think of in phonetic English (dunno about Yank) is guin-vrin; gosh darn it, I forgot to mention Welsh doesn't have a "v", our equivalent is "f" and the harder version, as in "felt" or "fortune" would be "ff". For those interested in modern intrusions into ancient languages, this can be seen in relatively recent words like ffenestr = fenetre = fenestra (not too sure about that last; never took too much interest in Latin, which was given overmuch significance for such a short lived language, don't you think?).
Ah, should I translate into these upstart Germanic languages (which I must admit, are relatively easy to master...)? Ffenestr = window, so I expect the word existed before we had glass? Why? Because we also have "tarw" = "taureau" = "toro" (="bull", no really!) but shop in welsh is siop, just as in Gaelic Sean etc has that same errr "sh" sound.
You know, I wish I was better at linguistics, or had taken an interest earlier, as it now seems to me a facinating subject!
Anyway, I hope that's all clear? I'll be testing you on my next visit...
Now look what you've done Cindy! You've engaged my attention well beyond the witching hour, which is how this thread seems to have had it's origins; who knows where it will go now, all kind of silliness could happen! [Anyway, how you going toots?]
04 Dec 2004, 6:12 pm
gwynfryn wrote:
Cindy wrote:
For those of us too far removed from our Welsh ancestry to pronounce your name properly, could you tell us how it might be spelled in phonetic English, please? Well there's a slight problem Cindy insofar as the Welsh "u" sound (which in this case is represented by "y" which is one of the rare variables in what is otherwise an unusually phonetic alphabet; but I expect you knew that?) doesn't have an equivalent in English (nor Yank) so for you linguists, it's the neutral position between the Dutch "u" and the German "ü" and is to my mind the most natural of sounds, so I don't understand why it isn't more common.
Anyway, the "w" in Welsh is pronounced as a short "oo", so the closest I can think of in phonetic English (dunno about Yank) is guin-vrin; gosh darn it, I forgot to mention Welsh doesn't have a "v", our equivalent is "f" and the harder version, as in "felt" or "fortune" would be "ff". For those interested in modern intrusions into ancient languages, this can be seen in relatively recent words like ffenestr = fenetre = fenestra (not too sure about that last; never took too much interest in Latin, which was given overmuch significance for such a short lived language, don't you think?).
Ah, should I translate into these upstart Germanic languages (which I must admit, are relatively easy to master...)? Ffenestr = window, so I expect the word existed before we had glass? Why? Because we also have "tarw" = "taureau" = "toro" (="bull", no really!) but shop in welsh is siop, just as in Gaelic Sean etc has that same errr "sh" sound.
You know, I wish I was better at linguistics, or had taken an interest earlier, as it now seems to me a facinating subject!
Anyway, I hope that's all clear? I'll be testing you on my next visit...
Now look what you've done Cindy! You've engaged my attention well beyond the witching hour, which is how this thread seems to have had it's origins; who knows where it will go now, all kind of silliness could happen! [Anyway, how you going toots?]
Fascinating! Fascinating! I love linguistics. I've even managed to ensnare my 21 year old daughter into my passion for such things (she wants to learn Gaelic, but the class meets while she is at work
).
Please do go on, anytime you feel so inclined.
