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Willard
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19 Mar 2010, 12:48 pm

Excuse me for dissenting, but I'm not buying the "all bullies are poor, abused victims inside" argument.

Several years ago I bought my (then) wife a Miniature Schnauzer puppy for Christmas. We went to the breeder's home to pick one out and there were two left of that 6 week old litter. One was hyperactively friendly, jumping up on us and bouncing around the room; the other was affectionate but much more sedate. She chose the first one for its exuberant 'personality'.

From day one, that dog has been unnecessarily aggressive in every possible situation, both with humans and other dogs. Bullying, jumping on, body-slamming, stealing food, you name it. I know dogs have their pack alphas and I understand that behavior, but this goes way beyond establishing a pecking order. I've seen this animal physically injure another less aggressive animal by body-slamming it into the edge of a door as it came out of its pet carrier. Nobody has ever mistreated that Schnauzer, she's just a born bully. And in my experience, most human bullies are born, not made, as well.

Just over year ago I worked with a man who ran his own small business. With his family (several of whom worked with him) he was affectionate and generous. With his employees, he was paranoid and cruel. He bullied, he abused, he cheated them, he intimidated them into subservience. I found out after several months he was under a court order to stay on a scrip of Adivan for what he would only characterize as 'Road Rage'. Eventually, the story came out that he'd attacked a previous employee and thrown them through a plate glass window in his own lobby. Over time, his references to a previous stay in the 'Nervous Hospital' made it clear that he'd had a history of violent behavior most of his life. If you only met him socially in passing, he could easily pass for a folksy buffoon. But once his true nature shows through, he is a dangerous bully - when he chooses to be. I never saw him exhibit that kind of behavior toward a family member once the entire time I was there. He chooses to be an @sshole and can turn it on and off more or less at will. In my experience that's what most bullies are like.

I've been abused and trodden on by these types my whole life and I do not in turn treat those around me with that kind of cruelty, and I'm frankly kind of offended at the idea that we should feel sorry for them.

Why has no one started an organization called 'D*ckheads Speak' to promote the search for a cure for Bullyism? Perhaps if there were an in-utero test, we could rid the world of this plague...

I am of course, joking. :roll: Sort of.



MichelleRM78
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19 Mar 2010, 12:55 pm

Have you ever seen The Dog Whisperer? Behavior can be changed and motified. It takes a calm, dominant person/dog to do so.

Bullies are the same. I do think that some people are born agressive. No doubt. But Teaching them to use that agression in a positive manner is society's job. If we continue to laugh or look the other way, we are no better.

I don't feel bad for the person who bullies because they are bullying. But if they have unfortunate things in their background, I do feel for that. There is always more to it than "just being born that way." Always.



CockneyRebel
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19 Mar 2010, 1:00 pm

People are afraid of what's different, so they have to put it down.


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ForsakenEagle
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19 Mar 2010, 1:21 pm

pat2rome wrote:
There was actually a study done sometime in the 50's (or the 60's, not sure) that showed this same effect. Children were shown a video of an adult playing with a toy (one of those clown things that are weighted in the bottom so they stand themselves back up). If the adult played violently with the toy, the child also did when they were given the toy. If the adult played less aggressively, so did the child.


Bobo doll experiment



Eggman
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19 Mar 2010, 9:30 pm

they arnt, they help prevent extinction


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19 Mar 2010, 10:15 pm

Willard wrote:
From day one, that dog has been unnecessarily aggressive in every possible situation, both with humans and other dogs. Bullying, jumping on, body-slamming, stealing food, you name it. I know dogs have their pack alphas and I understand that behavior, but this goes way beyond establishing a pecking order. I've seen this animal physically injure another less aggressive animal by body-slamming it into the edge of a door as it came out of its pet carrier. Nobody has ever mistreated that Schnauzer, she's just a born bully. And in my experience, most human bullies are born, not made, as well.

I'm sorry but I just see this as an excitable dog. Body slamming may look cruel but it's just a way an energetic animal is friendly. Stealing food? It's a dog. My cat steals my other cats food. Is she a bully? No, she is a greedy guts. I had an extremely energetic Jack Russell, I used to compare her to hyperactive/impulsive ADHD. She would jump on the cats at meal times, steal their food (so we had to feed her outside), she'd even knock into her own owners. She did bite but that was after she bit me when she was trying to get away from me. Was she a bully? No, she was as I liked to describe 10 Jack Russell's in one.

I don't think bullies are born, and I don't always think they've been bullied themselves. I just think they want to impress their friends or are bored. There is probably more to it than that but I myself don't understand how you can pick on someone that is different to you. I don't like everyone but I would rather get away from them than bully them.


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ursaminor
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20 Mar 2010, 9:31 am

MichelleRM78 wrote:
There is always more to it than "just being born that way." Always.
If only social isolation research was possible of children with early signs of anti-social personality disorder.
To see if there really is something besides nature.
But there were twin studies done and ASPD seems to be 90% genetic.
I do not know if that means that 10% of cases are made from the environment or that every one disorder is 90% genetic and 10% environmental.