Kid with aspergers (supposedly) gets life in prison

Post Reply New Topic

Do you ever think he was bullied so much that he wanted to take it out another student?
I don't condone the attack, though I have at times wanted to take my frustrations out on people that provoke them.


I agree. If you have autism/AS or a form of autism they will mention it. It doesn't matter if it has nothing to do with the story. Notice that they never say a boy with ADHD, or a girl with anxiety.
Autism ison the news a lot these days and sometimes it has nothing to do with the story.

This is abhorrent. A person who cradles a stuffed toy is a baby, regardless of their age. I hope this child realizes that it is perhaps in his best interests to kill himself, to prove to the government that they are the killers and rapers of mankind, and not disturbed teenagers.

You are you, and your circumstances are your circumstances. Reality is not as black and white as your broad generalizations and sweeping condemnations.

As it happens, if people bothered to look into the issue they would see that the insanity defence in this instance was premised on the individual being in a psychotic and paranoid state of mind at the time of the incident, not on having AS.

He will probably survive as some bigger guy's "girlfriend" if they do not seperate him from the predators..

My cousin is a prison guard here in Western New York. He said they have to screen inmates as they come into prison for the first time. Lack of eye contact is watched for so is the lack of social skills. He also said this would probably be a known case that the prison would have time to prepare for his arrival so they can get him in protective custudy or for placement for inmates with different mental conditions. If you go in already diagnosed then they have to take action to avoid lawsuits.

Last edited by Todesking on 07 May 2010, 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Do you have a reference to this case? I really would like to get more info on this cases like these.

Sure, it's not a good thing to play the AS card. However in my understanding there is a huge amount of evidence that AS sufferers can enter a state where the brain goes into a narrow mode of operation at points of extreme stress and is *not able* to make rational decisions. The goal of the AS sufferer is to never get into that state however if cornered it may be unavoidable. Tony Attwood's book says something like: "... becomes unable to see the signals that more appropriate alternatives exist ..." (I can give you the google books link if you can't find it) and then goes on to hypothesize the brain dysfunction that may be the cause.

I am not an AS sufferer but I have a couple of family members who are, one diagnosed, the other member shows some very clear signs. It has perplexed me a number of times that at times of stress the recollection of events from my AS family members is very disjoint and otherwise they demonstrate unbelievable intelligence. This seems tome that aspies somehow cope with this by "filling in the blanks" and with the high levels of intelligence they get it right more times than not but it's not allways true that the recollection of an aspie is a record of the events as sometimes it is a very intelligent brain trying to derive the truth from often ambiguous facts.

Be careful with your words, please. I will address your statements in the order you presented them.

First, there are many of us around here who are certainly not babies, and still do things such as sleeping with teddy bears (stuffed toys).

Second, there isn't really a good reason to kill oneself, and suicide wouldn't prove to anyone that government kills and rapes mankind. I also fail to see how a symbolic entity can commit the acts of murder or rape.

kc8ufv wrote:

I'm sure you realize this is an entirely subjective statement. I believe I have every reason in the universe to commit suicide and i'm sure many people would agree with me.


I just haven't done it (and likely never will) because i'm too much of a coward and I fear death and pain too much. Or from a more deterministic point of view, because my self-preservation instinct is too intact and it will simply not allow me to take my own life.

I agree with everything else in your post.


Suicide can never prove to anyone government kills and rapes humankind.

But nonetheless...along with corporations, self-serving wealthy and powerful people and the dominant religious and social institutions, etc....I certainly believe that.

We don't require the suicide of anyone to prove that. The evidence is there for all the world to see in sweatshops, the halls of congress, the corporate boardroom, the ruined lives of people the Catholic priests molested, the extermination camps, the napalmed and agent-oranged people of Vietnam, the homeless and abused mentally ill person, etc....ad infinitum. All this is so self-evident I feel like a moron for even mentioning it.

The world just goes about it's merry way until the killing and raping hits home.

I'm not sure I quite understand what the big deal about this is, besides that autism wound up mentioned in it all... which, in a TON of cases, happens, and in a lot of them, it's not even diagnosed until AFTER the event, which always leads me to be a bit suspicious of the diagnosis to begin with.

I am not sure I even buy the whole AS thing as being a legit self defense (in any case), as there are loads of us who have never even really thought about doing something like that. I don't think it rests on AS... yes, the impulsiveness of it, lack of rational thinking, maybe... but there HAS to be some sort of underlying anger issue, I believe.... and that is just part of personality for some people.

This kid... apparently talked about this type of stuff before. He brought a knife to school, and had to go into 2 different bathrooms before he could do anything... if he wasn't planning it out, then what was he doing? "Oh my God, what have I done?"... I don't think that really makes for a statement of innocence in any case... especially when there is a witness present. There was a LOT of time to think about this all and abandon the plan.... and he apparently had thought about that plenty, too, as he asked the officer how long you get for manslaughter (with an idea of a time frame in mind already) within minutes of finding out that the kid died.

Dunno... if it wasn't planned to actually kill someone... and it was impulsive, I think that would be the last thing on my mind after finding out that the person died. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I would still be in shock as to why I even did it, or would likely shut down from the series of events that had just taken place. But that is just me.

I dislike the insanity defense just as much... and that is why they have standards for what defines premeditation vs. "just snapping". ...I would also like to know, if he'd brought weapons to school before, why was it not ever noticed?

Something just doesn't sit well with me and all of this...

As far as him going to prison... what does everyone suggest they do with him? Maybe a mental facility for life? I'm all for that... but I definitely don't think someone who could sit in a bathroom just waiting for "whoever walks in" to kill, should be out on the streets with the rest of us.

If this idiot decided to take someones life who had nothing to do with the him then he deserves what the inmates do to him. I hope he enjoys the jailhouse kool-aid make-up they make him wear. Most Aspies could not walk up to a stranger for a conversation let alone to attack them. Come on. These guy is a faker.

They should put him in general prison population. If he can plan to kill some random victim and search for his victim in multiple locations then he has a fighting chance for prison survival just like all the scum we send to prison. He should suffer along with all the other vermin we send to to the joint.

Todesking wrote:

Well....i'd say until you can prove with 100% certitude that humans have "free will" in the most genuine sense of the term, you can't logically say anyone "deserves" anything....good or bad. There is plenty of evidence within our current knowledge of genetics, epigenetics, neurology, psychology, etc....which would suggest that humans have no more "free will" than grizzly bears do. Some of the greatest thinkers, both currently and historically, were/are determinists. That would include Einstein by the way.

"Do not be eager to deal out death in judgement, for even the very wise cannot see all ends"

Gandalf the Grey

Furthermore.....what is the practical and rational point of all this cruelty you are suggesting? Is their any good evidence to suggest it REALLY acts a deterrent against crime?


It seems to me that the people who have been kicked around and abused all their lives have a tendancy to be MORE cruel and abusive to others. Does this sort of thing serve any purpose other than to satisfy (if even that, ultimately) the crude, emotionally-based and
irrational lust for revenge? Doesn't the sort of barbaric treatment you're wishing upon this person set up a dangerous precedent for society as a whole? Has this sort of mentality not done so already? We already live in society in which brutal and bloody revenge and dehumanization seems to be the solution for everything. This collective mentality inspires everything from "road rage" incidents in which someone who cuts you off in traffic "deserves" to be shot to latter-day witch-hunts (or would-be ones if countless Americans had their way) against gays who "deserve" death for "spreading AIDS" and abortion providers who "deserve" death for providing a medical service.

I think the latent sadism within many people is the root cause for all this and this "trigger-happy" lust for revenge just provides a "moral" rationalization for it and thus serves to enable it. If civilization means what it's supposed to mean....should we really be interested in enabling the most vicious impulses in humankind?





Perhaps I could view this argument in a RELATIVELY more acceptable light if you were endorsing the same cruel treatment for those who've never been beaten, abused, impoverished, etc.....in their lives. You know... people like our wealthy ivy-league grad politicians and "businessmen" who come from privileged backgrounds and are guilty of far more than impulsive crimes of passion. But I guess anyone who orders the napalming and agent-oranging of millions of poor brown people in southeast asia is excluded from the criminal class eh? I guess only poor people...especially poor brown and black ones....are included in it.

Still....since we can't prove that even the anti-social actions of our politicians and businessmen are the result of some "free will" on their part, we cannot say they
"deserve" "cruel and unusual punishments" either.

Some people should be isolated from the general society and the deterrence theory found within behavioral psychology probably does prevent many people from engaging in anti-social acts. But i'd say long stretches of isolation (or permanent removal in the case of many murderers, pedophiles, etc....) from the general society are enough of a deterrence for most people.

Those who are not deterred by the prospect of lengthy isolation or permanent removal probably aren't going to be deterred by the prospect of rape, assault, death, dehumanization, etc....I'm not saying we have to make incarceration a pleasant experience, but I see no reason to make it a medieval torture chamber either.

You might wish to ask yourself the following question:


If you had endured the same sort of deprivations, poverty, abuse, etc....many of the people in our prisons have endured AND if your NATURE was similar (in terms of genetic/epigentic factors, overall neurological/neuropsychological ones, etc...) to their own, then what makes you so sure you wouldn't behave as they obviously have?

Some ill-defined and dubious ghost in the machine like "free will" or your "soul"???

An ability to control your impulses and make good judgements? Is there something outside of the realm of involuntary genetic/epigenetic-neurological factors which regulates those things? Can YOU prove that there is?

The act was abhorent. His AS defence does us all a disservice. Even so, should we try any sixteen-year-old, spectrum or NT, as an adult when there is scientific evidence they do not have adult brains?

No we shouldn't.

Our reasoning which determines the illegality of the crime known statutory rape is similar, if not identical.


We shouldn't be allowing or even, condoning, cruel and unusual punishments for adults convicted of crimes either.

There is no need for our "correctional facilities" to be the medieval torture chambers that they are. Obviously they are not overtly designed to be medieval torture chambers, but considering all the rapes, assaults and homocides inmates subject other inmates to, they might as well be.

I'd like to express my total agreeance on both of the above quotes. this so-called "aspie", regardless of age, deserves everything he gets. Anyone who wishes to disagree can take up their argument with me, an aspie of the age of 14 (almost 15) whom has never attempted murder of another soul, and has been mentally unhinged many a time until a point where I now refuse to use any violence whatsoever, rather, now I merely get beaten by the assaulter/s and wait for the attack to end. That is, ofcourse, if someone were to attack me. On the otherhand, if there were to attack someone I love and/or trust; I would show no mercy as I threaten the attacker (again, however, my former "unhingings" have got me into a state where, regardless, I would always shirk when it comes to violent conduct. Regardless, that won't stop me going all bodyguard on the attacker - blocking his way and most likely getting killed in the process).

EDIT: Rubbish! It mentions nothing on this page about the kid having Aspergers. Mild Form of Autism, yes, but not Aspergers in specific. As well as that, he has ADHD, Bipolar as well as some other things.



This most certainly intrigues me. Although why would want to commit suicide is nagging away at my thoughts, I think the most important question would be: Why the heck do you think people would agree that your life (or death?) would be better if you committed suicide...?

As for your fear "preventing" you, I find that preposterous! No, it is not your fear, but merely the fact that you don't want to die that is holding you back. What is the point of dieing? You'll just end up, dead, in a grave with no afterlife. Corpse rotting... Unfeeling... Unable to do anything... Nothing... there is no point. Imagine being asleep forever, but not dreaming... Just darkness... Nothingness... Boringness... That is death.

That's a really good point. The whole premise of statutory rape laws is that a non-adult teen (ages vary by state) may have a technical understanding of what sex is but is unable to understand the true long term consequences. So it should be with anything. Of course he knew that murder was wrong, horrible, illegal etc. Just like a 16 year old knows the mechanics of sex and really wants to try. But there is knowing and there is knowing. I just don't get this gleeful pile-on of how just it is that he will suffer horribly. He didn't fit the legal definition of criminally insane, but if you read about him you see a kid who was seriously emotionally disturbed and really truly didn't get the long term consequences of what he did.

I also see no reason to try to deny his Aspergers diagnosis (which preceded his crime by many years). It obviously wasn't his only problem. He was really emotionally disturbed and should never have been in a public highschool. But you can't make the case that people with Aspergers can't possibly commit murder by retroactively un-diagnosing anybody who does.

This kid spent a chunk of his schooling in special schools, particularly a school for emotionally disturbed children. Why he was ever taken out of that and put into a public highschool is a mystery to me. That never should have happened. This crime and tragedy could have been prevented if he'd stayed in that school, which necessarily treats its students as inherently more dangerous than most. But he was taken out of it and put in a public highschool. A terrible, terrible decision. And I am not going to jump and down with glee to think of the horrors waiting for him in prison. Instead I am heartbroken thinking of a boy who should still be alive and another boy who never should have been in a public highschool.

Aha, that explains why he was diagnosed years before this incident occurred. Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good old hate mob, like the fact that Aspergers Syndrome was not the defense and that the defence team referred to a number of mental conditions, and that the actual defence was insanity due to being in a psychotic and paranoid state of mind. If the media refers to Aspergers in any respect where a person is charged with a crime, we should just sodomize the person there and then in the court room.