People and their inconsiderate socializing!! !

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Easier said than done when you're suffering from severe depression and nothing seems to help alleviate it.

I was in pretty good shape up until a year ago. I was walking, swimming, lifting weights, etc....on a daily basis. But depression as severe as mine keeps alot of people from even getting out of bed.

Besides...climbing stairs is about the most strenuous activity imaginable. You would burn approx 900 calories if you climbed stairs for an hour. Swimming for that same amount of time only burns around 600. Not everybody, even alot of younger people, can do this and I wouldn't expect anyone to.This type of activity should be a choice, it shouldn't be forced upon anyone just because of NT diarrhea of the jaw. Sure...alot of people should exercise MORE, myself included. But for me at least....climbing stairs for five minutes is much more unpleasant than swimming for an hour. Also....alot of times people have groceries and other bulky items to take upstairs. I hated climbing stairs when I was a little kid and I was otherwise pretty darn active. Even cross-country skiing was more pleasant.

Not to mention going thru their pockets and take their stuff. You could also write on their face with magic marker not to waste your time on the elevator.

That title is tongue-in-cheek. Sometimes, it is good to start off with humor. I hope this was sufficient to break the ice. In advance, I ask you to forgive my attempt in formatting this reply in that nifty manner that some of you have, for I am new and not versed in message forum style and technique.

Now, on with my reply. I agree, Horus, people can be hideously annoying. They interrupt, they intrude, they delay, and that can go on for paragraphs. For the sake of sparing you all my usually wordiness, I will try to address what seems to be the main question (apologies if I am wrong)?

Horus wrote:

Did that work? The formatting, I mean. I have ADHD and am prone to going off track, bear with me; my OCD issues end up pulling me back.

Anyhoooo, it seems that quote may not be the whole point, but it is a relative one to sum up the whole. Sort of like "do unto others..." sums up most Levantine Bibles. I offer this suggestion: that waiting for others is necessary for our own personal development. We learn tolerance and patience. Indeed, we are suffering through the rudeness of others, but there is a chance that someone may see your tolerant and patient demeanor and learn that not only is patience decent, but they may see the annoying situation and learn to not be the sort of people that feel the need to block/annoy/slow-down our day. Karma, dudes?

Basically, there are going to be those who feel the need to be rude and obnoxious. In fact, sometimes, I try to do so, but those who get the joke don't seem to mind. Further, that unimportant conversation could be the last that those two people have together and your patience could be giving someone a closure they may have never had. Far fetched, but you never know. And those of you who actually managed to read to the end of this post and pull out what I am trying to say will get the in joke hear: sometimes a diversion is a great tool for conversation.

This bugs me, too. Especially at the grocery store when people are taking up the whole aisle, and talking, and completely oblivious that other people around them are shopping, too.

Horus, this is considered inconsiderate behavior in the NT world, too. You'd be completely justified in saying something like, "excuse me, but I have an appointment to get to and I really need to use the elevator" in a level tone of voice. They're probably being oblivious and not thinking about the effect their actions are having on other people. If you point out the problem, they will probably be embarrassed and move. If you keep telling this to them every time they block the elevator (if they're repeat offenders), they will eventually pick up that there's a pattern here and maybe they should take their conversations somewhere else.

I know it is. But i'm just extremely introverted and withdrawn, especially when i'm depressed. Once in awhile I DO say something even now, but most of the time, I just grudgingly put up with it. I don't like becoming someone's center of attention. If I could walk through this world invisible, i'd be glad to do it. Nonetheless, this is sound advice albeit very difficult for me personally to apply except on rare occasions.

I can't remember exactly where this quote came from, and I am sure that I am butchering it, but I think that it applies..

A French leader was asked why his countrymen bothered with pleasantries. The social chit chat and comments were meaningless and empty.

The French leader replied, it is like the air in one's tires. It is only air, but it makes the ride much smoother.

A guess we can consider NT's need to socialize and chit chat like some of our needs to stim. It is a necessary part of their neurology. It alllows them to function. Forgoing the exchange of pleasantries would be like driving in a car with no air in the tires.

Having said that, let's remember that we are from another planet and this need for verbal exchanges of the outcome of yesterdays hockey game or the weather is really just as irritating to us as our excessive stimming might be to them. Let's look at some possible amicable solutions...

If someone is holding the elevator and the stairs and not an option - say "Excuse me, I really need to get downstairs fast - would you please let the door close." Use this once in a while - sometimes, just let the NT chat a bit - sort of like them ignoring our stims when it is not too bothersome.

As for the supermarket - try going when it is less busy, use the express lane, etc. Remember, for some NT's this chit chat is essential for their mental health and wellbeing. Take a deep breath and appreciate the neurodiversity.

I have noticed a bit lately someone will jump on a posted thread and just start responding to the person who posted it in a really demeaning and insulting way. I've seen this several times in the last few weeks. In my opinion this poster's first reply to you totally missed the point of your post and didn't even deserve a response, you are too kind.

I know what you mean about this, it drives me insane. It's inconsiderate narcissists who don't care about other people. I got cursed out the other day because not just one but *two* people left their dogs in a hot car while going into a restaurant to eat and I saw them and called animal control. One guy was a complete lunatic and the other wasn't much better. Animal control was no help and almost made the situation worse. I sometimes can't believe how narcissistic people can be at times, unless you speak up, they will walk all over you and everyone else.

I'm still missing it. Man, I'm worse off than I thought, lol.

Believe me....I noticed it too... but I wasn't about to go to that level. I do not like to be engaged in conflict of anykind with people when I can avoid it. The poster did miss my point and I suspect the reason they haven't replied again is because their opinion seems to be the minority one here. It's easy to demean and insult one person...it gets a bit hairy when it's you against the world.

That being said....other posters here have expressed a more moderate attitude
towards the "inconsiderate socializers" than myself and several others on this thread.

These posters actually make some fantastic points and offer some sound solutions in regards to getting people to stop this sort of behavior. They were able to do so without the thinly-veiled demeaning and insulting rhetoric poster number #2 used.

No matter what....I stand by my original point. None of us has the right to hold others up simply because we wish to engage in a casual conversation. Their are several ways to deal with this. Tolerance, however grudging, may be one of them as one poster suggested. Truth be told...I DO tolerate it 99.9% of the time, but not out of the goodness of my heart either.

But at what point does tolerance of inconsiderate behavior, regardless of it's motivations, become tacit approval???

I agree with what another poster said about the NT's needs to socialize and chit chat being similar to *our* needs to stim.

But I can't think of too many instances of autistic stimming behavior actually impeding the progress of others. Furthermore...I think this chit-chatting stuff is alot easier for NT's to control than our stimming behavior is. There are so many times and occasions for NT's to "chit-chat" without inconveniencing others. I don't see what exactly would happen to NT's if they just refrained from doing it while holding an elevator or holding UP the check-out line. Get off the elevator and talk all you want. Or don't press the button until you KNOW you're done talking. Or tell Jim; "Ok i'll TTY Jim, I don't want to hold the elevator up". The solutions seem pretty obvious and their implementation seems very painless.

I just think we live in a very self-entitled society and people really believe they're above any wrongdoing anymore. Or if they don't believe this...they simply don't care. I see evidence for this sort of thing everyday and not just when it comes to the "inconsiderate socializing" of others. I can't begin to tell you how many times i've had some fellow motorist riding my *ss within inches until they finally decide to pass me. Then when they do...I get the finger and the dirty looks as if I was the one doing something wrong, dangerous and blatantly illegal!! !

Same thing at four-way stops....all but the literally blind could tell I have the right-of-way and some clown who blows the stop sign gives me the finger after I express my disapproval.


Oh well....you get the point and all this is getting boring. It's stating the obvious or what SHOULD be obvious to most people IMO.

I'm the furthest thing from a prude. Anyone can tell me about the most unusual sexual fetish or something and I barely raise an eyebrow. Stuff like that isn't shocking or offensive to me....hell....it isn't even interesting.

But common-sense consideration and respect is a whole other story and I really don't think there's usually a good excuse for not having any.

They're retired. They are thus removed from the world's schedules. In fact, talking about a game with another living person is probably the highlight of their day, because they have nothing else to do. If you're in their building, you will act according to their will. They've lived long enough to have that right.

/empathy

Have you ever had a job and criticized the management? I would think that those people that provide the maintenance might feel like that, a little impatient, a little pressed for time. However they do know that the people that are delaying the elevator ultimately pays their salaries.

Those service people wouldn't be able to feed their families and put a roof over their heads unless those people holding the elevator wasn't paying their rent to the building association that in turn pays their salaries. Those service people waiting for the elevator know that under every gripe and grumble they may have, they know where their paychecks come from, Horus. So they wait for the elevator.

You don't pay for the electricity to run the elevator, do you? Those people socializing and holding up the elevator certainly do pay for it and pay for the wages of the other people that use it too. That is why they can do what they want to the elevator.

Life is like a poop sandwich, Horus,
the more bread you have the less poop you have to eat.

Merle

I agree that a lot of the time you just have to put up with it. But the original topic wasn't specifically about the elevator-that part lead to other things... people standing in the middle of the sidewalk, or stopping traffic to talk to someone... now what purpose is that serving, and why should others have to wait so patiently for it to happen? (A side note: I always just wait there patiently, and know to just put up with it usually... and if something important comes up, I DO say "excuse me" very politely. The whole thing in question here is WHY do they do it to begin with?)

It's not a matter of how to stop it... or even why we have to put up with it, or what lessons can be learned from being patient. It's about people becoming rude in general and the things listed were simply examples.

Certainly, some things can be rationalized... some things have reasoning as to why nobody says anything, but surely, some things people do are plain pointless.

As Horus just mentioned, the dingbat that swerves around you at the last second while driving... sometimes the same guy you see later on on the same road, who caused a wreck just because he wanted to get somewhere 10 minutes faster. Okay, so he has a place to be... but he should have left earlier. No, it's not rude that he had an accident and is holding up traffic... it's rude that he would behave in such an irresponsible way to begin with.

Horus, I see it too.. in lots of situations. People don't say "excuse me" anymore. They give dirty looks instead. People won't tell you they didn't hear you, they just smile and nod and go about their business. People won't say "sorry" for things. People will cut in line just to be a smidge faster, or swerve around you just to get to the red light in front of you rather than behind or on the side of you.

I'm not sure, Horus, if you live in the US or not... and I'm not sure if this is everywhere, or just in my area... but it seems to be, that people are just getting too spoiled where I am at. They expect everything to be just as they want it, when they want it, and manners don't matter anymore. I cannot read minds, but this is the attitude they carry when going places. I've noticed, if I'm even potentially in someone's way, I say "sorry" or "excuse me" and move immediately... usually it's responded with a very obvious eye roll, a dirty look, or just absolutely no response.

I wonder what happened, lol.

I suppose there probably were plenty of rude people when I was younger too and I just didn't notice them. Either that, or I'm just getting older and notice these things a lot more. But in my subdivision, only about 5 of the families here are decent enough to talk to... the rest (30 +) you have to be really leery of.

I mean, we have one lady across the street that just today announced she was going to call the cops any time she sees one of the children who lives in the same exact building she does (she really thought they would do something) all because one laughed in the hallway, and the mother was working on keeping the noise down. She was angry when someone pointed out the fact that the cops are not going to do anything about children living near her... livid. She said that they should because she's lived here longer than anyone else. Feelings of entitlement much?

Another woman expects people to buy her family food while she spends all of their money on alcohol.

...and many just let their kids run and expect that if there are any problems, someone will come tell them about it (and rest assure that if anyone does, it's their problem, not the parents' or child's normally). One neighbor does it, and she doesn't check on them... in fact, they run alone for hours and hours on end, and she will come get me to watch them so she can go to the gas station when she needs to.

Another sends her child TO my house... knowing my son isn't allowed to be near the kid, and expects me to take my son inside so that her precious little demon child can play in my front yard.

There are soooo many examples of this weird self-entitlement thing going on lately, that I could literally go on for hours and hours. I'm not saying that all of them think this-many are oblivious, but it carries the same theme... expecting things from others and not even making an attempt to avoid doing it to begin with.

Yes, I know some of these things I *could* do something about, and have tried many times... but that isn't the point. The point is... why are people doing these things to begin with?

Last edited by anxiety25 on 04 May 2010, 10:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

First of all...just because 80% (or whatever) of the residents here are 55+ doesn't make it "their building". Younger people live here as well and they're paying mortgages, maint fees and taxes too. With all due respect, this doesn't sound much different than the christian conservative argument about America being a "Christian nation". Should us non-christians just be expected to "act according to the will" of the 80% who are self-identified christians?
In any case...this is not just about this building or old people either and i've already made that clear.

Sounds like you're advocating for a tyranny of the majority here. I don't recall learning anything in ethics, law, or logic classes which would grant people special rights and entitle them to inconsiderate behavior just because they've reached 55.

Really....it's not like i'm asking for blood from these people. If the highlight of your day involves talking about the "big game" with your neighbor, then by all means, GET OFF THE ELEVATOR and do so. Or don't push the button until you know you're done yakking. Or...tell "Jim" to call you later or come up for a visit. Or...tell "Jim"..."OK buddy, i'll TTYL, I don't want to hold up the elevator". Or arrange to meet "Jim" in the party room later for a game of bridge. I mean seriously....is it REALLY that much of a sacrifice to avoid inconveniencing others in this instance? Does it require a creative solution even Davinci couldn't devise? I look upon this as a conflict of rights or interests. And I don't see how the interests of a person trying to get to work on time or something is trumped by the interests of someone who insists on holding up the elevator every time they want to finish their urgent conversation about the Steelers game BTW... as you might have guessed....the official policy in the building expressly forbids this sort of nonsense. But like many "official policies"....it's summarily ignored because it's rarely enforced.

I can also assure you many of these same old people would throw a hissy fit if I was holding up the elevator for the same reasons and THEY were trying to get to a Dr.'s appointment. Don't think so? I've seen it happen and it wasn't me who was holding up the elevator. It was one person (old and not-so old btw) engaging in pointless small talk with another person.

Sorry...slice it however you will....this sort of nonsense is pretty much indefensible and equally avoidable.

Empathy is not the same thing as tacit approval of anti-social behavior...even if it's "ultra-lite" anti-social behavior like this.

but you are missing the point, Horus. YOU aren't paying towards it, are you? where is your gratitude for having a place off the street? Does that temper your anger, or is that why you are angry in the first place?

sinsboldly wrote:

Yes. But again...this is not just about the maintenance people and I made that clear already. It IS about others who live here and pay mortgages, maint fees and taxes INCLUDING other old people trying to get to their Dr.'s appointments, the airport, etc... on time while someone is holding up the elevator for small talk. It IS also against the rules and regulations in this building. Generally speaking, this group on WP consists of the most intelligent human beings i've ever encountered. Infinitely more intelligent than myself and i'm counting you as one of them. Therefore...I feel no need to spoonfeed you by telling you who makes up these rules and regulations. I don't need to tell you who attends the condo association meetings.

Hint:.....it ain't me.




No I don't and I already made that clear as well. Again...this isn't just about me. In any case....I guess we now live in society in which you're only entitled to the consideration you can afford. You might do well to keep that in mind next time an autistic adult is in need of some social services. Nobody ever seems to complain when the rich are sucking blood from the poor and the middle class. But the heavens themselves wail in horror everytime some poor oppressed rich person has to sweep a crumb from their table. It doesn't matter whether this "crumb" comes in the form of some social service the long-suffering rich don't want to fund or some minor consideration the rich don't feel the poor deserve. It's always about the justice, medical treatment and now according to you, even the COMMON COURTESY one can afford. This sort of mentality is REALLY what the "American way" is all about isn't it?


This is what life is about....that much I agree with. But that's because billions of people have failed to question the legitimacy of the powers-that-be. Until that happens....capitalists, governments, powerful religious and social institutions, etc... will continue to trample and abuse everyone for their own superfluous gain. Everyone will complain and continue to vote for the same corporate puppets and criminals in the two "property parties" (as Gore Vidal so aptly refers to them). They'll continue doing so until the ruination of the world. And considering the recent oil spill, the massive coral reef die-offs and deforestation, global warming, the decline of the world's fish stocks, etc......that doesn't seem like a long way off.

I know this diatribe doesn't seem to have much to do with rude people holding up elevators just to talk about sports or something. But to me....this sort of thing is just a micro-illustration of a far deeper and much more serious problem.

I call it the dark side of individualism. American and capitalist-style individualism just has everyone believing they can do whatsoever they will wholly irrespective of the impact their actions have upon others or the planet.

If you ask alot of American "libertarians" like Murray Rothbard about their positions on environmental issues, they'll tell you it all boils down to a matter of "property rights".

Considering Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is among the best-selling books in American history, i'd say the sort of individualism i'm referring to is common enough.

And if this is what life is about....if this is the best we can possibly do as a species....then I welcome a gamma ray burst.