OCD vs. "OCD"

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The problem with the term "obsessive compulsive" it that people (and this is including the medical community) use it to describe perfectionism (which is why people mix OCD with OCPD) . It's not necessarily wrong, but it's rather confusing. However, I agree that the "Neat Freak" stereotype of OCD sufferers is untrue. Never had it, but a few of my friends had it and, like you said, they were also kind of slobbish when it came to tidying things.

My ex considered himself having it because he liked things neat and it drove him crazy when his apartment was messed up because of my stuff and he liked things in order and organized.

So if my Mum has to tidy our flat to get peace of mind, she doesn't have OCD? She has something that tells her oh, it's so dirty, you have to make it neat, all in order and neat, especially on Saturdays. Doesn't matter that I cleaned on Friday. She tells me to do sth and I have to do it NOW. If I do it later, it's wrong, because she has her own list in her mind first this, then that... She can be really dangerous.
Chlorine smell is sooo beautiful, it means it's clean.

I also have dirt-obsession, but I show it in the other way. I still clean my hands, my teeth, my clothes. I find everything dirty, people are dirty and stinky and they need Lizol-bath.
I have a list in my mind and I do everything in the same order. I even use the same colours when I make a table (this one on a paper, not furniture). I told you that everything in my room has its own place and moving is forbidden. Is it OCD or just autistic traits?

My Grandma had hardcore form of OCD - GPD (Gestapo Personality Disorder). She had to control everything and everyone. She was ultra-perfectionist. If something wasn't as regular as clockwork, it was botch. Do you know what I mean? Is it real OCD?
(offtop: I wrote a tribute-song for her, it's called Prussian Discipline, but it's still beta-version, so imperfect, she'd call it botch and mock )

I wouldn't say it's misuse, it's more like slang. Like saying 'this computer's raped' instead of just 'broken'.

It could be OCD, but it probably ISN'T OCD. OCD has a specific neuropathological marker. The underlying mechanisms are different from that of regular particularities people tend to have and most people with OCD can actually tell an OCD spawned obsession/compulsion from a normal one when it arises in them.

I had OCD in my teens, but not now. Maybe it's just the antidepressants I've been on enable me to keep it in check. I had tons of magical thinking - if the bus number is wrong my dog will die, if the light turns to red before I pass someone in my family will die, if this person doesn't answer when I call, he's already dead so I have to call again and again until he replies etc. Before that I checked locks, not once or twice or three times. Try not getting out of school for an hour and a half after it was over because I had to check and re-check my locker. Sometimes I was halfway home, turned back and checked it again.

I still have ritualized thinking patterns, like repetitively playing out potential life scenarios over and over again, with different twists and turns, but I've been told that's most likely my autistic fear of the unknown.

As an aside, I do have a mild case of Tourette's (diagnosed), trichotillomania (diagnosed and largely successfully treated with ACT) and although I didn't have a full-blown eating disorder I spent hours a day obsessing about weight and measurements and physical symmetry in my teens.

Crap. I guess I've always been a basket case, AS aside. Never hypochondriac though. But when I was really low I kind of wished to be sick, just to have something tangible to attach all my misery to.

When I lock the car I check to make sure I have my keys first. That's logical. For some reason I feel compelled to check the keys again after the door is already locked. I do it every time. My father had to get up 2 or 3 times a night to check the stove.

So without the Compulsions the Obsessive/Intrusive Thought behaviors are what? Is it possible for them to develop from a PTSD type of scenario?

The word "compulsion" with OCD is usually used synonymous with the ritual, or actual doing of something to alleviate anxiety caused by the obsessive/intrusive thoughts. However underlying the action is the compulsion to do.

A person may have OCD and refrain from acting on compulsions in the sense of not performing a ritual or task they have a compulsion to do, if the OCD at that particular instant is sufficiently mild. They may also refrain from doing it under cognitive behavioral therapy.

However the compulsion to do it will still be there.

Conversely, a person with OCD may have obsessive/intrusive thoughts which is not associated with a compulsion.

This is more likely to happen when the intrusive thought is random or only occurs in particular situations which the person is not subjected to frequently.

Compulsions generally have two flavors. Those initiated by the disorder itself (sub-conscious brain), and those initiated by the person in absence of that (conscious brain). For example.

This is the difference between the subconscious brain saying "You need to do this particular thing to prevent something bad from happening or to get rid of this thought or sensation." and the person themselves saying "I need to do something to get rid of this,"

For example, a person with OCD who is a checker may have a compulsion that tells them if they tap the doorknob three times when they go back to check it, then they will no longer have to go back and check it because performing that ritual will convince the basal ganglia the action was performed (it's a way of bypassing the faulty circuitry). But this compulsion itself may originate in a similar manner as the obsessions/intrusive thoughts themselves, from the subconscious portion of the brain. These types of compulsions are usually more closely associated with the "otherwise something bad will happen" phenomena.

Conversely, a person with OCD who goes to a seminar and finds they have disturbing sexual images of the speaker in their head might not have a compulsion to deal with it, because the issue of "something bad happening" is not presented to the subconscious brain. The person is not in danger so the subconscious had nothing to attempt to solve.

However, the person IS disturbed by it and may consciously formulate a way to attempt to distract themselves. These formulations can become incorperated into the disorder if the situation arises frequently enough. However many individuals will not form outward rituals or actions to cope with these situations and will simply make a conscious effort to try to think of something else.

So there are instances where the person has an obsessive/intrusive thought not associated with a compulsion or ritual.

The nature of the obsessions/intrusive thoughts are still distinct to OCD, however, and differ from the types of obsessions and thoughts found in personality disorders, substance abuse problems, and so on.

It's thought that OCD has a strong genetic component and it's precipitation is less influenced by environment than say, schizophrenia. This is derived from twin studies. However stress can make OCD worse and some individuals may not realize they have OCD until subjected to a particularly stressful event.

I think most of the anxiety related to PTSD is not due to OCD.

Chronos, Thank you for taking the time and effort to compose an explanation. It may take a while for me to work through what you've written and I will no doubt have a bundle of questions. After browsing your post this OCD concept does seem a little clearer.

There are typically two types of scenarios that play out, one is similar to the seminar example, the intrusive thought is something "emotional" and nearly always produces high-extreme levels of anxiety impacting myself and those in my environment. The second type of scenario I experience is more similar to what happens commonly or when I was growing up. This is where a word or phrase gets stuck in my head, sometimes seemingly out of nowhere, and will repeat itself over and over. This usually causes me little to no anxiety, and is usually something harmless and is usually associated with something that is either amusing or enjoyable. Sometimes its "weird" and rarely cause for concern, though uncomfortable thoughts do happen. When it gets out of hand it often becomes a serious distraction. For instance the word "foliage" is something that I will often find myself repeating for comfort or fun, other people have noted or comment upon this behavior confused as to the 'odd' repetitive behavior. This type I can deal with.

Could the second type be more neurological and similar to that which occurs with ASDs? Can there be two issues going on, sometimes overlapping, but usually two types of behavior with different initiators? And can loud noises, high motion environments, stress etc. trigger OCD style intrusive thoughts to get progressively worse? (Forgive me if you've covered this in your post, I'll be reading through it again.)

If a person has OCD, there is a tendency for certain thoughts to be repetitive due to impaired processing abilities stemming from the same issues which cause OCD. A person may have to repeat something to themselves until it "feels right". This may express only as a thought, as when a song is stuck in one's head, however, if this is expressed vocally then it may qualify for bordering on Tourette's Syndrome, or qualify as Tourette's Syndrome.

It is my personal hypothesis that many individuals on the autistic spectrum who hit themselves or repeat words to themselves may have a form of Tourette's Syndrome, based on input from those who have been able to communicate why they do it.

However some young children, and those on the spectrum will also repeat a word simply because they like how it sounds. I would not consider this to be associated with OCD in most cases. I think in young children this is simply part of the language programming process.

It is worth a mentioning that I have also heard of a type of OCD referred to as "purely O" where people get thoughts stuck in their head, of and often benign nature, and worry they will never be rid of them. I'm not sure if this is caused by the same mechanism that causes traditional OCD.

I imagine that whether an obsession or compulsion is due to OCD or not could be very easily determined by certain brain scans, as OCD has a very real physical basis and fairly definite "though signatures" so to speak.

Here is a PET scan of the brain of someone with OCD compared to a normal brain. The are surrnounding center of the brain where the basal ganglia is is slightly more active (green), while the frontal lobe is much more active as it tries to deal with the junk from the defective basal ganglia.

http://www.schoolbehavior.com/Images/0c ... cla001.gif

i've never come across anyone with the "fake" kind, OCD is never just the "way you are" it's a disorder and a hinder to have, and unlike fake OCD people, it can be treated and corrected.

Thank god i've never come across the fake kind. I still get OCD on some things, but I am on an anti obsessive compulsive/anxiety drug.

Neat freaks ARE NOT OCD. They did not develop a disorder. It's just the way they are.

If someone has to line stuff up in a certain order or they'll go ballistic, THAT is OCD.

Interesting:

Purely Obsessional OCD
OCD
Thinking the Unthinkable

Last edited by nansnick on 05 Jul 2010, 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bingo! And for me, I'd add counting all my steps through the whole process: 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4...

OCD makes me so sad. But I don't care much when people misuse it, because if they knew - really knew - they wouldn't do that. I'm almost glad they don't know. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Their ignorance is a type of bliss in my eyes. I wish I didn't understand it so well. But yeah, Chronos, your explanation is good and will be helpful for people, I am sure.

I'm Pure O, slightly C.
I HATE it.

Everyone has OCD to a certain extent, like how everyone has autism to a certain extent. I guess it's just another case of whether or not you have enough traits for a diagnosis.

BTW, what about CDO? It's like OCD, but with the letters in the right order, like they should be.