executive dysfunction sucks.

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Just because I can afford helpers does not mean that I do not suffer from severe executive dysfunction. I can hold bits of information in my head if they are related to my interests...but I still have troubles with these things regardless......to the extent where I can't perform solo and live...memorize my own songs etc....without extreme effort...
and I still stuggle with tasks that I have had to do every day for years, despite my very best intentions.

I have traits of both AS and ADD...and I have been assessed as having Asperger's ......so saying that my executive dysfunction is somehow different does not make sense..I have impulsivity when I am forced to do stuff not related to my interests....but my executive dysfunction is very very real.

It took me forever to learn how to dress myself properly when I was a kid...I still very very seldom wear shoes with laces....I very REAL difficulties with sequencing,,,etc....It does not make activities completely impossible, but it does make them very slow and difficult...especially when my attentions are being scattered by perpetual outside interference.....It makes holding normal jobs very difficult...it makes everything very difficult....Any progress I have ever made in my life has been due to my special interests....all other activities more or less tear me to pieces...It takes me hours to do work that some people could easily do in an hour....

The reason I can afford to have helpers is akin to having won the lottery, as I managed to fall in with a business partner who is also neurologically wired differently, and does not worry about his own executive dysfunctions..because he is comfortable with having other people do things for him, and he is good at making money and had his own business when I met him..which was partially structured and built by more organized NT types(his previous partners)...

Currently we are doing well, so after a long struggle I have hired a helper I can actually communicate with.....but that's another long story....

My point is that I definitely know executive dysfunction...just like I also know dyspraxia,,,,so things are not different for me than they might be for "more autistic" members of the board, and who is to say i am not one myself....just because parts of my lifestyle are somewhat atypical...

I seem to have difficulties in many of these areas. Like, I'm the one who goes to Walmart and then realizes that I forgot my wallet and have to drive back home to get it. I do that like once a week. I can't find things because I lay them down and totally forget where. Car keys are a major issue on that one, especially when I'm tired and lay them down somewhere. Then of course, if I move something so it won't get lost, that makes it lost. It does take me sometimes hours to write something on the computer like a facebook comment or email. Now when I clean, I have good days and bad days. Like if my clumsiness is really bad, I say I'm having an Aspergers Day. I do well at cooking, but I take forever to cook unless it's microwavable. My house is generally messy because of time management issues. I generally miss appointments all together, and if I remember them (which I've been doing pretty good on that lately with the kids' appointments), I am usually late (from 5 minutes to 2 hours late).

Here's some things that have helped me... (no extreme solutions; however, it's a noticeable improvement)...

1. The Clutter Diet...It's a book. It's a great book. It's like 12 bucks on Amazon.com. The website also has a club you can join. I plan on doing that soon. I need to re-purchase the book too cause my last one got destroyed before I could try out other things. I tend to be a pack rat. I have so much junk in this house. It's way too much. Total sensory overload making it hard to get me motivated to clean. Removing the clutter to me is simplifying my life.

2. Appointments... I've tried many different things with this. The one that's working for me right now is a calendar on the fridge. I just printed one off from the computer, blank, no pics, monthly calendar (dates on it though). Everytime I make an appointment, I try very hard to make a conscious effort to put it on that calendar. I stuck it on my fridge. I make the conscious effort to look at it frequently. I have my husband look at it as well (since I can go days without thinking about it). I have yet to miss an appointment I stuck on that calendar. But I do forget to write down appointments on it sometimes. The other thing that sort of worked was putting them in my cell phone on it's calendar and setting the alarm. Two major problems with that was putting the appointments in since I hate texting and fishing through menu options when I'm making an appointment (like at a doctor's office and they are rushing me out the door). Also, the generic phone I had wasn't always sounding an alarm when it was supposed to, and calendars in phones generally aren't easy to look at all the time. Another thing I did that was working too that I stopped because I went through a phase where I couldn't be on the computer as much as I would like to be.. yahoo has a calendar. If you set up a my yahoo page, you can have a calendar module thing on there, and on that page (which I made my home page) it tells you the events you typed in it for the next 3 days. Again, you have to remember to enter that data.

3. Bills... that's a very difficult one. Automatic bill pay works wonders when your income is consistent. I've done that before. Our income lately has not been consistent. What I've been doing lately, everytime I get money (since I never know exactly how much it will be or when I'm getting it for sure, and at times, I'm not sure if I'm getting it), when I get it, I sit down and plan how I'm using it. First I think what I will need for living expenses like groceries, gas, etc. until the latest approximate date of the next expected income. Then I plan bills with the rest varying on dates due, and if I can tuck anything into savings, I do that too. I tend to make a lot of plans with the money, and then by the time I get the next money, I'm re-planning. Since I'm so awful about mailing checks, I usually pay whatever fee to pay my bill either over the phone or online. I've heard there are companies who will take your money, pay your bills, and give you allowance.

4. Cooking... My mother in law is from Puerto Rico. She cooks all her meals from scratch. She doesn't even use minute rice. It's cheaper that way. Life is more expensive in the frozen food aisle. Plus, I got 3 kids who need to be eating healthier than the frozen food section offers. Anyway, when I cook, I try to cook enough to have leftovers. I stick the leftovers in one meal servings in tupperware and freeze them to reheat later when I don't want to cook. I do make a lot of casserole type meals because it's the hardest to destroy. I also make a lot with Rice and Beans. It's one of those things where the more you do it, the easier it gets. I also take advantage of helping other people cook just to learn how they do things and I get a lot of great ideas that way. I'm not going in too much detail on that because I'm not sure how at this point. Anyway, when I was single, it was actually cheaper for me to eat out. Being female, I often ate out for free because I was on a date.

5. Forgetting things... Clutter Diet book taps into that. It mentions what they call a "destination station." THat sort of helps me except that I have kids, so I have to design everything to be child proof, and it appears that my children are just more creative than I am.

6. Autism is big about routines, and a lot of this stuff can be improved with routine. Like my natural routines I want to have are useless toward my function as a human in this world. In my world, it's great. But I got to thinking, I can make routines that better function in the regular world. But that's a lifestyle change, and that's hard to do no matter if you have autism or not.

7. Let go. Some therapist for a family member with autism said that our brains get stuck. I notice that a lot. In fact, if you look at a lot of your symptoms, you can almost see how it's a result that your brain is stuck on a thought and just won't let it go and move on to the next one. I don't always recognize when my brain is doing that, but now that I see it that way, I do recognize it sometimes, and it has helped me to try to do that and just tell myself it's the autism making me be stuck on this thought so I need to move on to the next thought.

8. Re-call. That same therapist also touched on our ability to recall information. We seem to have a lousy recall. I think this relates to why I give so many details because I'm just mentioning them as I remember. Like I can't remember everything at once, but the more i talk about it, the more it comes back to me. The stuff that sticks out to me or is most important to me I know is generally useless to everyone else, but I can't remember the useful stuff until I start thinking about the useless stuff. Knowing this hasn't helped me function better, but it makes me feel a little better about not functioning if that makes sense. Like I know it's not because I'm a total idiot. I have an excuse for it unlike most people in this world. Being aware makes it easier to figure out a solution.

Sorry so long, but I'm not exactly sure what to edit at this point. I'm really tired. Sorry.

poopy if you think you've got ED go get tested for it. Ask you doctor for a neuropsych assessment which last around 3-5 hours. . they will do something like WAIS (they usually do with with ADHD testing these days), which is made up of lot of test and they will do other supplementary test. They will adapt it to your suspected cognantive level in certain areas. if they start doing tests designed for lower cognitive function they might suspect you have a problem.

If you can learn a song, play and sing at the same time and do this not even that frequently that means it is unlikely that you have a clinical executive problem in it own right. I would say you have more specific executive problems rather than across the board. technically you can say savantism is an executive dysfunction because it is a deviation from the normal function, however savant are of various cognitive level and some of them wouldn't be diagnosed with ED in the clinical sense.

I not saying you don't have problem you clearly do just the nature of them whilst there are similarities are still different. Executive dysfunction is not linked to a time of the day like them morning. That presentation does relate to ADHD though. I also pace aimlessly, but even when I am attempting doing something it is constant derailment and of a different nature to impulsivity. Executive dysfunction does not positively discriminate against interest or anything for that matter. if you have intense interest it will still give you head f**k, much to your frustration.

All I'm trying to do is explain the difference I'm not belittling you experience, I'm sure it is no walk in the park what you have.

One thing I wound consider though, you said you creativity makes things worse. If you did not have it you would be more f****d than you are now. I mean you already said you can't hold down a normal job. Be careful what you wish for.

I was wondering something related to this topic. Do people with autism usually have symptoms similar to alzhimers/dementia? Im sure I dont have dementia because Im only 25 and have always had symptoms although they seem to get worse as I get older but I saw this list of symptoms and they fit what I was talking about in this post. I showed it to my friend and she said it fit me perfectly except for a couple things. She even started laughing while reading it because it fit me so much. Some of it to me seems to overlap various things as well. I also remembered that one time a doctor wanted to try alzhimers meds on me but I denied them because I didnt think they would work because I dont have alzheimers. Some of the things that fit the most are forgetting what someone said right after they said it and repeting myself several times within a sentance and most the other stuff fits as well.

http://www.dsm5.org/Proposed%20Revision ... 0DSM-5.pdf

Last edited by carltcwc on 12 May 2010, 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes this was I concern I had. However I know better now that I don't have dementia. However I do have know recall and memory problem as well as long term memory problem of anterograde nature (although not exactly like anterograde amnesia). What i realised is they have been too focused on my memory problem which are very ambiguous an random, and not enough focus has been made made on my other cognitive problem which may actually provide answers as to the memory problem. This is what I'm really pushing for at them moment.These symptoms are part of a complex congnative problem rather than simply losing you mind.

Don't think you have dementia. You cognitive problem are a result of a dysfunction rather than progressive organic decay.

neuropsychologists are kind of obsessed with certain aspect of memory/recall at the exclusion of other things.

Secondly ignore the DSM V it is not fit to be toilet paper. It it is used by a completely different discipline that those that realisticly assess ED. The is the discipline of arbitrary check list based on arbitrary requirements and relationship, pull out of thin air called psychiatry. Not the very really analysis that comes out of the huge amount of data from the neuropsychological assessment.

the test for dementia are primitive done by ordinary doctors, the best test are functional scans. that is why it is not pick up early enough.

psychiatrist use executive dysfunction as a buzz word this is why there is a lot of confusion about it. They do not test for it. other than to ask you if you know hat day it is, etc. they don't really know what it is about. They only know behaviourism, so thay will know about dysexecutive syndrome from brain injury. And yes neuropsychiatrists aren't any more knowledgeable.

Thats what I was wondering is if it was as aspie trait or something due to the subarachnoid cyst in my brain. Subarachnoid cysts do not usally cause symptoms but they can. I know that dementia like symptoms can occur from organic brain disorders. It is hard to know what symptoms that thing is causing or not. Im diagnosed an aspie/adhd/schizo/organic mix but its almost impossible to tell whats causing what. Hopefully the naturopathologist is able to get me the right herbs to make that thing disintergrate so it goes away. Then well see which symptoms presist without it. It would be nice to get rid of the impairing cognative and narcoleptic symptoms but keep the creativeity that I have.

Ive taken an executive functioning test with a neuropsychologist. It was called the winconsin card sorting test. I was unable to perform it though and didnt understand how it worked. My IQ test ranged from mental retardation to genious on various tests.

carltcwc I believe you have ED.

I actually do have something called cavernoma in my brain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavernous_hemangioma

it showed up in one scan but not another, that is because it only shows up when it bleeds which is does every now an then.

Neurosurgeon said it was better not to operate and it would be fine to leave it. He didn't think it was to do with to do with my cognitive problem because it is in a difference place to frontal and visual part of the brain. I used to have a being cycst on my scull it was removed because it is cerebellum which is not the brain proper.

I feel the same way about myself...I am 34, and often feel like I am headed for Alzheimers...I can be holding an object in my hand...set it down for some unkown reason and immediately forget where I have placed it. I immediately forget what people have said all the time...I am a bit of a visual thinker, and can often visually remember where certain things are within the chaos...But even that extremely useful tool seems to malfunction more and more as I get older.
My sentences when I speak are often disorganized and I repeat myself within sentences...Sometimes I can get so hung up when asked simple questions that I will refer whoever asked the question to someone else...
I forget words and forget my point and have to go back and start over, often several times....

I can't organize paperwork to save my life, as it relates to my "job"...so it is in random piles all over my office. There are the remains of multiple thwarted attempts to organize things all over the place...I have a hard time differentiating between important and unimportant papers...or mantaining any sort of system for organizing them.
I carry a big cluttered bag, because I have a hard time differentiating between essential and non-essential items, and despite my best efforts, I misplace my important stuff within the bag all the time....not to mention the bag itself...

I am medicated for ADD, but the medication does not help with this stuff. It helps me have maybe occasionally a few slightly longer spurts of productivity throughout the day, and sometimes I wonder whether my meds aren't hurting my memory in some ways...like my very selective visual memory (the only part of my memory that seems worth a damn)..and I am about to talk to my doctor about that today...even though he is not a very thorough doctor...



It does sound like you keep trying to belittle my experience..

If my words are somehow not valid enough to be taken at face value in regards to the fact that executive function is one of the most difficult aspects of my life that I have to contend with....I would have to save up for expensive multi-hour testing...or cajole my business partner into helping me pay for it( even though I can currently afford a helper to come in for a few hours a few times a week)...as to my understanding, it costs thousands of dollars, and I am not sure whether my insurance will cover it or whether it might result in having my insurance compromised in some way, as my partner who filled out all my paperwork for me put down that I had no history of treatment for ADD...nor any sort of PDD....

It takes me a very long time to memorize the songs I play, and I can easily forget songs that I have played countless times....I was in my late-20's when I started playing the ukulele, and I have thrived with it because it is an extremely easy instrument to play.
I seldom play music without cheat sheets though...but I have been singing pretty much since I learned to talk...so it is something that I am good at..and not even by professional standards.

I was never able to thrive at school because of my extreme difficulty organizing...and this carried from the way I kept my books..over to my inability to filter the important from the unimportant....and into many other areas as well.

Having difficulty with normal jobs is nothing I have ever wished for and neither is executive dysfunction.....My creativity kept me listing in aimless circles for years, and I was marginally employed/supported by friends and family and living in a rooming house before I helped run a venue, and I am only lucky that I am young for my age and managed to get scooped up by someone who appreciated my talents and overlooked my dysfunctions (until he got to know me better )
Creativity got me where I am today, but little good it does me when I have little time to do anything with it because I am so busy struggling with all other aspects of my life like (barely) helping run 2 businesses with my partner when I often feel so inept that I'd think a monkey would be more capable at my job...

sigh I tried to explain it. No doubt it is a major factor, but it isn't completely preventing you. That is the point I'm trying to make. You have to factor in all the other contributing things. Yes it does make your life difficult.

Nor is it completely preventing anyone else who has posted on this thread...from being able to function enough to post here...So I guess we can't all that badly off.
I was not able to go very far in school..I can't drive a car..keep a living environment from looking like a train wreck...I wake up at 6 in the morning to hopefully be ready for an appointment I have at 10...

I have felt defensive because you seem to keep implying that my executive dysfunction is somehow different from that of the other people who have posted on this thread because I have a history of being treated for ADD or something...or because I am capable of playing a instrument (not very well in the great scheme of things)...which is specialized to my main special interest.....but I have many AS traits...and my executive dysfunction is as likely to stem from that..or both...so it can't be all that different...it does not limit itself to certain factors or times of day or activities...it affects everything...but there are certain times when my level of functionality ebbs and flows....but I think that that is not atypical among people who are troubled by this sort of thing....

Timers have revolutionized my life. I use them for just about everything - to remind me when the next stage in cooking is ready, to remind me the laundry is done, and also I restrict myself with my cleaning --- only a certain amount of time every day so that i don't get burned out. Lighter cleaning also helps train you to do some things without thinking, rather than lumping the whole notion of cleaning as, 'oh, god, f**k this, too much.'

Granted, this isn't routine yet. I'll do great with this and then stop a couple weeks. But over time it does start to be easier. It also takes time to see good results, since you are forcing yourself to pace rather than rush.

That said. I can't drive, or go to school. Not currently working, but I consider teaching myself executive function to be a legitimate 'job'. I am also working on jewelry.

poopy I over reacted, I think you are on the executive dysfunction spectrum, and it is a significant problem in it is own right.

I'm tetchy on the subject because it become a bit of a buzz word right now, and people are making subjective assessments. Of course most people will be able to relate to the symptoms in some way.

My EF is okay unless I am under stress or forget to take my supplements. I take lots of supplements to help my disorganized brain. I suggest at the minimum large doses of fish oil and B complex vitamins.

Eating fresh fruit and vegetables would help with the cooking issue and supply nutrients. Some people eat only raw foods. I eat mostly raw foods or prepared things like protein drinks and bars unless we are having company or my kids wants something particular.

I make lists, I am 31 and have a chore list hanging on my wall. I really need a clean home to be "ok" so I have the tasks for each day lined out (not too many in one day) and mark them off as I go along.

In addition to the Adderall, I also take tons of supplements....Omegas and gingko...and B-vitamins....and lots of green tea and yerba mate.....i try to have a smoothee in the morning if I can be compelled to make one (my helper usually has to clean up after me unfortunately )..Sometimes I am able to pre-make it and keep it in mason jars in the fridge to drink the next day...but I only do this for brief phases....before something throws me off the routine.

I have tried to use timers, but they have only marginally worked and I have often ended up misplacing the timers..or the pressure of working against the timer will throw me off task...

.I make lists, but my lists end up going crazy and become scattered and impossible after a while....One list turns into some giant impossible octopus of lists.

I have been doing my best to keep a legal pad in front of me at all times at my desk when I am trudging through my daily office work...but this generally only lasts a while and is eventually gets misplaced..so things might go to hell for a bit till I am able to regiment the next routine....
No matter how hard I try to stay on task, a snowbank of stuff piles up behind me...