Need input on husband's "symptoms" - ADD or AS or

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"22 Things" by Rudy Simone has a short list of the symptoms. It's available on Amazon.

There isn't much online about it. The other thing, is that I'm pretty sure it gets better if the Aspie in question knows the effect they have on people.

Personally, I had depression, some symptoms of chronic fatigue, and inflammation in one of my feet that wouldn't go away, and made it difficult to walk--and then I gained 40 lbs in 3 years because of that. Being broken up with by my Aspie made it all go away within about four months; I lost twenty pounds, the pain in my foot went away, and I was much less depressed. (Although I would rather he just had gotten therapy.)

But for clarity's sake, here is your list, from "22 Things".

low self esteem

feeling confused/bewildered

feelings of anger, depression, anxiety

feelings of guilt

loss of self/depersonalization

phobias-social/agoraphobia

posttraumatic stress reactivity

breakdown

psychosomatic (physical symptoms):

fatigue

sleeplessness

migraines

loss or gain in weight

female problems

myalgic encephalitis (ME) ---this is chronic fatigue

low immune system (colds to cancer)

Aston (2008)

I've had every symptom except the migraines--but my Aspie has never done counseling and isn't on-board with the diagnosis--he understands he has it, but not what that means.

It's not every Aspie--just those who won't at least read about their effects on their romantic partner.

"This is the problem: Even who someone who admits to the diagnosis who won't get counseling can be incredibly destructive in a relationship.

Willard: Because, of course, it's always the Autistic who's wrong, and who must be changed if there's to be a healthy 'communication' - in fact, that's apparently what communication is: making the 'different' person fit the neurotypical person's template. Get in that damn mold, or else. Not submitting to someone else's expectations is 'destructive' and requires immediate reprogramming. And we're the ones with the 'disorder'. "

No offense, Willard, but I don't think that's what Poppy meant. Obviously both partners need to change so they can find a compromise they can both live with. That's hard to do if either partner has an unrealistic view of the situation. I can say from experience that as difficult as some AS traits can be to deal with sometimes, not being able to communicate about it because they think they're perfectly normal is a lot worse. Believe it or not, it actually makes it harder to change to accommodate for the person with AS.

I can easily see how confusing, frustrating, and lonely it can be sometimes for an NT in a relationship with someone with AS, especially if they don't know what they're in for regarding executive function, rigidity, etc. That said, I have serious reservations about "Cassandra Affective Syndrome." I don't think it's a constructive way to deal with these frustrations, and it blames the partner with AS pretty much by definition. The AS partner is who he is, and chances are, he's doing the best he can to be a good partner. It's not fair to him to say "hey, you're giving ME a disorder." To me, it looks as if the NT is tired of hearing the AS person say, "you don't have a disorder, so you have to accommodate more for me because I just can't," so the NT is co-opting a disorder label so as to have an excuse not to take on more than her fair share. I doubt that describes Poppy or Rooish, but it seems like the subtext in general. So, seriously, maybe it'd benefit you more to look at your (legitimate) frustrations through a different lens.

I'm not asking my husband (who may or may not be an aspie!) to completely change to accommodate me. I'm certainly not perfect and have my own idiosyncrasies. However, I have and continue to acknowledge and work on my issues. In fact, I've often spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong that we're having these problems in our relationship (i.e. am I just too sensitive, too anxious, in need of an anti-depressant, etc, etc?) I want to feel like he is taking responsibility for how he may be contributing to our dynamic. Unfortunately, the dynamic bothers me a lot more than it seems to bother him, so he doesn't feel a lot of urgency!

Anyway, I'm reading all of these posts with great interest, and will continue to do so.

Thank you!

I tend to agree that I don't know about Cassandra Affective Disorder--I don't get the impression that people in relationships with Aspies who are effectively therapized have all those issues. In fact, having even gotten validation of his symptoms from books, I'm a lot less stressed out about it.

Can you explain why, "thinking it's normal", makes it more difficult to accomodate or change for the person with AS?

Also, how much can a person with AS learn to accomodate?

@poppyx: "Can you explain why, "thinking it's normal", makes it more difficult to accomodate or change for the person with AS?"
Sure. I dunno if this came through clearly, but I meant to say that the person with AS has to not believe their own behavior is 100% normal. If I don't realize I have a problem (e.g., I'm doing something out of the ordinary that really bothers someone I care about, and it's reasonable for them to be bothered by it), then I'm not going to work on it, am I?

Let's use a different example. Let's say I have no internal sense of the passage of time, so I find it difficult to get places on time, or to estimate where I'll be when if my schedule isn't planned out perfectly in advance. (I'm a little less extreme than this IRL, but you get the idea). People will get pretty annoyed at me for being late, or being hard to pin down or make plans with. They may think I'm not dependable, and they may not want to do things with me because it's so difficult to make plans with me. My behavior, then, has significant effects on the people in my life. Let's say I think that my behavior is something everyone does. My first reaction, then, would be to brush off their concerns, thinking, "they're just overreacting about little mistakes they make themselves all the time." If I know I do this a lot more often than other people and it's more than normally inconvenient, on the other hand, I'll think, "oh, I have a problem, let's see what strategies I can use to organize my time better." Or even, "maybe I should ask for help with this." I'll also be receptive to compromising about it. Does this make sense?

"having even gotten validation of his symptoms from books, I'm a lot less stressed out about it."
That's great you were able to get validation. I bet this is part of the appeal of Cassandra Affective Disorder, but I'm glad you could get that validation from somewhere else, as well.

@rooish: "I'm not asking my husband (who may or may not be an aspie!) to completely change to accommodate me."
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that at all! (If this comment was directed at me).

"In fact, I've often spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong that we're having these problems in our relationship (i.e. am I just too sensitive, too anxious, in need of an anti-depressant, etc, etc?)"
It's great that you're also examining your own behavior. I hope you're taking a balanced view, seeing the part each of you is playing in these problems...it can be just as bad to blame only yourself as only your husband. Whatever each of you may be doing, the problem is probably not that you're overly sensitive or anxious.

"I want to feel like he is taking responsibility for how he may be contributing to our dynamic"
OK, yeah, that seems totally reasonable to me. It sounds like he sees the dynamic differently than you do, which must be frustrating.

Mosaic, nope, that wasn't directed particularly at you. More to Willard, I think. I found your thoughts quite helpful, thanks!

I really don't mind working on our relationship, and am quite willing to work around some of his traits (nobody's perfect!)...but it's true that it would make a heck of a difference if he acknowledged the impact they have on me and validated my feelings about it. It think it WOULD make it easier to accommodate him then.

Let's play a fun game. I'm going to list actions that are unusual to NTs, and let see if anyone identifies:

1.) you can't walk with me in a public place (no focusing on the AS person)

2.) you can't call to tell me you really care

3.) you can't see my family or friends

4.) I get depressed

Now, assume the AS person thinks the NT is weird for walking with them in public, calling to say they care, wanting to be included in social activities with his family and friends, and they blame the NT for their depression.

This is the issue. It means that being in a relationship with someone who is AS is like walking on eggshells--you never know what you'll do wrong next.

However, every reasonable-sounding person I've talked to on this board has asked about comorbid disorders--like narcissistic personality--when I say that my Aspie won't acknowledge that these things are his issues. I know that you guys acknowledge and take responsibility for things.....I just watched one of you do that a post or two above...

how long does it take from an adult diagnosis to have some idea that you're actually having a really negative effect on an NT if you continually blame them for your discomfort?

Do some people never get that they harm others in close relationships?

I can't necessarily comment about all of this, because I don't have those hang-ups. Not all Aspies do.

For the record, I've never been in therapy. I'm in a relationship with a man who is not AS, but not "NT" either (ADHD + Oppositional Defiant Disorder + Learning Disability-NOS caused by potential left-hempisphere brain damage). He has been through years of therapy.

Interestingly enough, many people on the forums go on and on about "meltdowns" and how frequent they happen. Until I was about eight months in to my relationship with this guy, I NEVER had them.

My first meltdown ever was when I was trying to leave to go to a job interview, and he wouldn't stop badgering me about how I was dressing up for it. He promised to drive me there, but refused to leave. I tried to get out to catch my bus, but he convinced me to stay. He just kept on trying to argue with me until it was 25 minutes before, and I insisted that I had to go. He started screaming at me to be quiet, and that's when it happened.

Every single instance in which he pulls something like that, everyone around me asks why I'm still with him. Not a single person has defended any of his actions. Even when they witness them directly, and not through my recounting. The answer? Because I just don't have the time to go through the process. He always talks himself back in, and then tries to guilt trip me by accusing me of trying to sabotage his education (because then, he will become obsessed with it, and not be able to do anything else). My life is already full enough without having to deal with this right now.

He partially gets so frustrated, because everyone seems to take my side. My parents, HIS parents, my friends, his friends, his own therapist.

Long story short, people without AS can also cause a great deal of undeserved stress on people who have AS. Therapy is no guarantee that a person will be "helped".

It is entirely possible for a person with AS to be accomplished and level-headed without any sort of "therapy" or "early intervention", thank you very much.

Are there people that don't consider the impact they're having on the other person? Of course. But that is certainly not exclusive to people with AS, and can easily go the other way.

The thing that is interesting is that my boyfriend has some similar complaints that many NT women have about AS men.

I "never spend enough time with him" (average of four days a week)
I "always put him last" (cut back my time with my best friend to once every ten days. I don't see my other friends at all anymore. My student group socializing is now nil)
I "care too much about work and school" (I'm one credit away from graduation and work full-time in my desired career of choice- IF I get bridged)
I "spend too much time on the computer" (According to him, fifteen minutes to check e-mails when he's not even around is far too much. I don't even TOUCH it when he's around)

The difference is, while NT women typically get sympathy, my boyfriend is viewed as a needy, attention-seeking, borderline stalker control freak. Maybe it's just that women get more sympathy in general.

This was kind of my point:

I don't think it's all AS.

Most people who knew they had something wrong with them would get some kind of professional help.

If ANYONE won't seek help, regardless of what it's for--maybe that's something wrong with them, not just AS or BPD or OD or whatever stalkerish thing you might be calling it this week.

So why won't people get help?

if someone thinks they are perfectly normal, and their partner is having issues with how they are relating, then the automatic assumption is that the partner is the crazy one.

heres a real life example for you: when my aspie SO and i would go grocery shopping, he would get increasingly agitated and nasty towards me for taking time to look at products. he would sometimes get to the point of publicly berating me for taking so long, which inevitably triggered a nasty fight. he would place the blame for the fight on ME for taking too long. (realistically, sometimes i do, its one of the ocpd tendencies i have, problems making decisions and spending money, but this happened even when i was "being good").

because he thought he was completely normal, and we know i have problems making decisions, he felt his actions were normal and i was the crazy one in the situation.

now we know he has as. we have been able to identify that when he starts getting agitated, its not because of ME taking too long. its because he is getting overwhelmed with all the people and social requirements and feeling increased stress and sensory overload. and now he knows his reaction is not a typical reaction to the situation. he tries to stay calm during our shopping trip and instead of starting fights with me, he can tell me when its getting to be too much for him, and we can either cut the trip short or he can go wait in the car. and i dont feel abandoned and made to do all the shopping if he needs to leave, i know why he has to get out of the store.

so if the aspie knows their behavior isnt typical, they dont view everyone else as crazy and can work to modify their behavior and reactions. and if the partner knows the aspie is an aspie, they wont expect typical behavior and will be more accepting of the aspie behavior. acknowledging the diagnosis works better for both.

as for how much an aspie can learn to accommodate, i think that depends on the individual, just like with any behavior modification. we can all try, how far we will get is up to us and our own idiosyncrasies.

O God, not Cassandra again.

A made up condition manufactured by women who want to abdicate responsibility, saying" You gave me this! I got this from living with you!"
O please.
Sure, some Aspies cause problems in relationships. Some NT's cause problems in relationships. And some people get along just fine. The divorce rate is about 40% last I heard. A lot less than 20% of the population are aspies, and many aren't in relationships. Do the maths.

If your goal is to shift the blame off of autistic people, you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot.

I think Cassandra only applies to people who haven't really taken their diagnosis on board. If you're an NT with an AS who acknowledges the problem, it's fine.

Like one of the posters above, I had years of being told, "You're weird for x, y, and z." Specifically, walking with my aspie in a public place. Sometimes it really bothered him. I was supposed to stay away without focusing on him--it took years of his belittling me for normal behavior to even find out what it was that was bothering him.

I think AS people are fine if they are willing to say, "Without saying you're wrong, this is what I need you to do because you are making ME uncomfortable."

Assuming a little weird, I'm fine with not "blaming" the Aspie. I just don't want them "blaming" me.

It's much easier to just say, "Hey, can you not make a value judgement on either AS or NT behaviour. Just tell me what you need, and don't extrapolate that there is something wrong with me because my NT behavior is not what you as an AS would do...and vice versa."

I'm not blaming autistic people. I'm blaming autistic people who are really unkind to NTs because they won't express their discomfort without saying the NT is a "bad person" or "really negative".

Quoted for truth.

There are a fair number of AS men out there who got diagnosed later in life, and have no clue how difficult they are.

I'm writing this for them, and to validate their partners.

If you're with an AS person that does not truly realize what they do to people, it's bad. Really bad, if you're married, or in my case, stuck in a house bought for that person.

Yes, NTs can be jerks, too. The difference is, I don't believe that an AS person who understood what they were doing would do it.

Some of the NTs are just jerks for the fun of it.

Those traits sound a lot like me. I think I can come off as selfish with my time. I feel for you, rooish. When my husband hugs me, I usually don't think to hug back - it's not lack of affection, it just doesn't occur to me. It sounds cold, but I think of it like watering a plant. I need to remember to hug him once in a while, even if I don't feel like doing it. He'll be healthier for it. It took me a long long time to realize this. Your husband simply may not have considered how important this is to you yet.

I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago and I have to say before that that I was dismissive of it, too, but then I learned about it - it was just an ignorance thing for me. Now I get it and my life is, in some ways easier with taking that into account. Personally, I've been wondering if I was misdiagnosed and it was really AS - it's so hard to tell - or if I have AS and ADHD. So, in reading your list of traits you described in your husband, it seems like only a pro could really figure it out. I'm undergoing assessment right now because of this.

For me, some of the big differences between what I feel is AS vs ADHD are special interests and their prevalence in my life (they are very intense) and stimming. I do lots of little stims most of the time which I've never seen as part of ADHD.

Also, your husband's childhood could help sort it out. When I was little I was selectively mute for quite some time and people's speech became gibberish. Well, it still becomes gibberish, but I read lips now, so it's less of a problem. And that is not ADHD. I guess you could look for the differences between the two and see if they apply.

btw - I can't remember where I read your other thread...the one with the cupcakes...but I thought that was really kind of you. And even if your hubby has ADD or AS, he can still be made aware of and if not appreciate how you feel, at least try to reciprocate, even if he thinks it's just going through the motions. Your well being is as important as his. It's like me making a point to touch or hug my husband once in a while. I do it for him, not for me.

wow, this might be my longest post ever...yikes!