what would life be like without AS?

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Whilst I admire the contributions made by the autistic community, I believe there have been great NT's who have made contributions just as profound.

I for one, envy the intellectual capabilities that AS people posses. I doubt though that all autistic people use these for the betterment of society. I also doubt that that society would be that much backwards.

You have a puppy! That's so adorable and exciting. Is he still leaky? What does he look like? Does he bark a lot? How big is he now and how big will he be? Does he obey Sit yet?

Me too. I think we would be just as advanced now if there weren't any aspies, because there's still NT geeks to do all the computer stuff.
And to be honest if we were still living in caves I don't see that as a bad thing, I think humanity has messed up the world even more with each advancement, I would prefer it if we all still lived the simple life we would have done some 10,000 years ago.

I keep telling myself, if people were nicer, I wouldn't have gotten bullied. Are you sure AS is to blame for that?

It's the intolerance of others that causes the bullying, but conversely without AS would the others be as intolerant?

The AS and the intolerance are a "conversation" that manifests as bullying. Remove *either* from the equation and life is easier for the one who is getting bullied less as a result.

Bullying is a complex exchange between bullier and bullee. In childhood everybody gets bullied to some extent, but for some reason, the kids who do the most bullying zero in on certain individuals and continually harrass them, while giving up on others. It's not clear what it is, exactly, that causes this chronic bullying pattern. It might not be that someone has AS. It could be because someone has blond hair. It could be for any reason. The bully feels insecure and compensates by harrassing others. The bully is the one with the problem.

All of this is true, however, there is a pervasive pattern of bullying of children with AS. Children who don't normally bully others will join in on bullying an AS child. I'm not defending bullying -- I believe it is sick and wrong. However it seems to me it's difficult to deny that there's something about the average AS kid that really brings the bully out in others -- both their age peers and adults. I was bullied as much by teachers as my age peers. More, if you consider the power dynamic: a teacher telling a child (in front of others) "it makes me sick to look at you" or forcing that child to sit in a cardboard box every day instead of with the rest of the students will bring on more peer bullying as the authority figure has just demonstrated that it's okay to treat the vulnerable child badly.

There is a pervasive pattern of bullying certain races and ethnicities, depending on where you are. Are you going to blame bullying on the skin color someone is born with, their facial features, or hairstyles?
It isn't as bad now, because people have stood up and refused to tolerate racial bullying. Since the dawn of political correctness and bullying based on race being taken seriously by school administrators, it has declined in recent years.

Women and girls also get harrassed at school and work, but are less likely to complain, and often do not call attention to it. It's widespread, you could call it a "pervasive pattern". Are you going to blame the women and girls for it?

People are also harrassed based on sexual orientation.

When people say that bullying won't be tolerated, period, you will see a reduction in all instances of bullying, not just harrassment based on race.

It may look like bullying is more severe for those with AS, but, is it really?

Yes, certain things tend to bring out the worst in bullies. You did notice the part where I said that bullying is sick and wrong and I'm not trying to defend it? I think it's better to recognize who is vulnerable to bullies than to be in denial about it. If no one is allowed to say "people with AS are particularly vulnerable to bullies because the traits of AS make them an inviting target" then we are in denial about the bullying and no one will do anything to try to change it. Before things can change, we have to be able to speak openly about them.



And hopefully bullying of AS people will get better, the more we stand up and educate others. We've got a long way to go, though, when teachers are still bullying AS students and pulling stunts like getting the other students to "vote them off the island."



You are having a knee-jerk reaction to what I'm saying that's preventing you from hearing my actual message and instead superimposing a straw man over it and arguing against that instead. Yes, women and girls getting harassed *IS* a pervasive pattern. Yes, something needs to be done about it (and the problem has been addressed for years and is continuing to be addressed.) Never did I say that I blame people with As -- or any bullied population -- for being bullied. Saying that traits of AS bring out the bully in people is NOT blaming the people with AS. It's saying that predators see something vulnerable in people with AS (and people of other races and religions, and women and girls, and smaller, weaker people, etc.) and target those people.

Please re-read what I have written. I am not blaming the victims. I said bullies are sick and wrong and I do not defend what they do. I will keep repeating that phrase until you understand what I am saying (or until I get tired of repeating myself and give up and go away.) What I am saying is that people with AS (and other vulnerable populations) need extra protection because the AS makes them extra vulnerable to being bullied. That is not blaming the victim, it is seeking to protect the victim.

Greater tolerance will (hopefully) lead to less bullying and greater tolerance can only come through increased education and increased education can only come through being willing to talk about the fact that there is a pervasive pattern of bullies singling out people with AS to brutalize. You don't seem to want me to say that, but if no one is willing to say that, then there is no chance for greater education and then there is no hope of greater tolerance. We can't just wish greater tolerance into existence by thinking that no one should be bullied. Greater tolerance requires educative action which in turn requires paying attention to the patterns of violence and victimization so that we can target our education.



I have seen studies that indicate that, yes, bullying is more severe for those with AS.

Also, speaking anecdotally, I was attacked with poisonous snakes, rocks, glass bottles, fists, boards, bleach, feet. I lost some of the hearing in my right ear from being brutally beaten in middle school. I had bullying from teachers who made me sit in a box, told me in front of the class that it made them sick to look at me, tied me to my chair, put all the desks in a circle with mine in the middle and dumped the contents of my desk out then made me put everything back in while my classmates watched and laughed. I was severely bullied and might well have been if I didn't have AS but I can't help comparing myself to my sister who had the same family background, same socio-economic level, same race, same religion, same gender, went to the same schools, and only got the normal level of minimal bullying that most kids get. No rocks thrown at her head, no being thrown down to the ground and kicked repeatedly, no being tied to a chair by her teacher, etc.

I speak out because I don't want any other child to have to go through the things I went through at the hands of bullying children and adults. So no amount of trying to shame me for what I say will make me stop saying that people with AS are an especially vulnerable population when it comes to bullying and we need to speak up and educate people about this until there are people who protect us and shame those who harm us.

If bullies threw rocks at a kid in a wheelchair, the adults would step in and shame them for what they were doing. When bullies abuse kids with As, though, too often the adults step in and join them. This has to stop.

I understand what you meant, but you cannot blame the AS for the bullying. People are in charge of their reactions to people. You cannot blame someone unless they dileberately provoke someone else, and even then, they have to accept some responsibility for their response. I read where you typed "bullying is sick and wrong".

I was bullied in much the same way you were, but yours does sound much more extreme. I am sorry you had to experience so much violence, but your story is why we need to stop the cycle of bullying and violence. It seems to get more extreme when people do nothing about it. I wasn't trying to shame you in any way.

I don't know how bad the bullying is for "kids with AS", if it's all kids with AS, if most cases are as extreme as yours. It does seem like violence is pervasive in schools though, and not just against kids with AS.

You are right, though, it can be tough for us, and others who experience the same thing.

You are very right that we need to stop the violence and that it's not just AS kids who get the brunt of it. But I also think that there needs to be special attention to the extra-vulnerable kids, including the ones who are small for their age and kids with AS.

Something extra sad in the case of AS is how often the child doesn't even understand what's happening and thinks the bullies are their friends because they pay attention to them (in the case of bullies who egg the child on to do dangerous things or things that get them in trouble. It is pretty obvious when kids are throwing rocks at your head that they're not friends, no matter how much attention they are giving.)

I think I'd have a lot of friends. I'm actually pretty likable, easy going and kind; it's my terrible social skills that kills everything. If I could be normal, I feel I'd probably go out a lot. On the other hand, if I was out more and did much more activities, I could also be exposed to more of the dangers that's out there in this world. Because I am a loner, I stay of trouble and out of danger. Who knows what would happen if I was out all the time.

it would be alot eaiser thats for shure, you'd have friends everywhere and practically be a movie star

What's more, you'd *enjoy* having friends everywhere and *like* the attention that people who are practically movie stars get! :-)

I agree with you here. People usually like me when I'm not anxious and wants to be friend with me. The hard part is then I say things or do things that are socially unacceptable without realising it...and that I have such different and narrow hobbies and obsession that people comes to think that I'm rather boring. And also as you said, if I'm NT, I prob go out a lot with other people...I prob get hooked by smoking, drugs like other people in uni...who know what will happen...prob get drunk and raped in pub lol...hopefully not tho= =" but that's just "what if"...since im already an Aspie...who has never been to pub or night club...

Hi Claradoon , I posted about him in another thread already but I'll just copy past here for you!
In this thread:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp2819342.html&highlight=#2819342

hey guys,

here's Kumo at the pet shop, holding by the shop owner.
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae204/melbibear/Kumo/IMG_0256.jpg

He kept running around in the house non-stop, so hard to take a photo. this is the clearest one.
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae204/melbibear/Kumo/IMG_0265.jpg

Finally he got tired and fell asleep. Can't believe he likes the teddy instead of the very expensive puppy bed I bought lol
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae204/melbibear/Kumo/IMG_0270.jpg