An Aspies Ego

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my aspie SO has this trait, and it gets quite frustrating. its one of the biggest issues that comes between us, this idea that he is right and anyone who does not believe/think/feel as he does is wrong.

case in point: while lying in bed and watching something on the news about van der sloot, somehow we get onto height and my SO declares that the average male height in the netherlands is 6ft 8in. now, that is extremely tall and highly unrealistic as an AVERAGE height. despite the absurdity of it, he still believes it is correct and defends his position.

what ive found with this kind of instance.... google is my best friend. the only thing that can counter misinformation for him is facts and figures, and they must come from a reputable source. now, if its opinion or interpretation or perception, i am pretty much screwed and there is no hope of changing his mind. intangibles cannot be proven true or false. (he later did realize where he got the false idea, but without being proven wrong he would never have considered he was mistaken.)

my 4 yr old aspie is becoming similiar in his thinking. one of his most popular phrases lately is "i am right and you are wrong." i definitely think its a product of rigid asd thinking. i am working at reminding him to be respectful even if he thinks someone else is wrong. there are better ways to get your point across and try to convince others than by telling them repeatedly and insistently that they are wrong =P

i found this hilarious because i think my SO would agree with you. and i think the main difference in our thinking is that facts are not more important than people. i know, i know, hard concept for aspies sometimes. but respect for others trumps the need to be correct. for some of us =) so this is not an argument that is ever likely to have a mutually agreeable resolution.

I'm not sure if it means I have an oversized ego, but I do believe to be right in subjects I feel I've studied enough to offer an opinion on. I generally listen and take in knowledge on things I don't know about. And I ESPECIALLY accept that there is a 'right' or 'truth' for each person. Especially because I hate when people (schools & teachers being the most common) impose their teaching and learning methods on me.

The problem with the thing people are saying on this thread like "I am factually accurate and can't stand when people are inaccurate"... first off I have that impulse sometimes too. But. And this is a huge but.

You are not fully objective. No one is.

You are not always in possession of all the facts. No one is.

You are not a paragon of rationality in an irrational world. No one is.

You are not immune to groupthink. No one is.

Everyone thinks irrationally most of the time. Often "rational" thought is just a rationalization of irrational ideas. While some people are more immune to groupthink than others, no one is totally immune. Just witness the conversations on this forum as an example. Lots of groupthink abounds here. Lots of irrationality, prejudice, etc. too. One example of a myth that is common here is the myth of the logical, Spock-like, hyperrational aspie who is immune to groupthink and understands the way the world really works unlike those illogical NTs.

And sometimes when someone disagrees with you it's not because they're an idiot or a sheep. Sometimes they know something you don't. Sometimes they are using something other than formal logic to get to their conclusion and sometimes they're right and you're wrong. If I had to use formal logic to think I would be lost but even I fan see holes in the ideas of the more logical-aspie-stereotype folks. I can be wrong too but so can everyone, welcome to the human race.

I recently realized this when it came to my special interest. It has been quite a comedown to realize that I do not have many answers, and my solutions to the problem are one of many. Also, many thoughts are based upon opinion.

In many cases I notice I come to the same conclusions of those in charge. The problem with ego is that, even if we have the same ideas, we want our name on those ideas. This is why people want to be in leadership and public office.

I was the same way in school. If the teacher ever said the words "group project" I found myself going "NOOOOOOO!" inside and getting anxiety-ridden. I always thought it was much easier to just do things on my own schedule using my own ideas. Sometimes I would just do the entire group project myself...much to the joy of my group members. For me it was easier than dealing with them, even though I knew it was wrong.

Yes, but I've learnt to like working with others! Still, I am a loner by design. There are those whom I admire and honored to work with and amongst though.

What you wrote, above: On the flip side, this is how bullying occurs - it's a concerted effort where the Aspie is the outsider whom they regard as wrong.....as if we are wrong my design.

EDIT - to add-on: My friend just visited - - he lent me his book & you all may be interesterd. Meeting the Shadow, the Hidden Power of the Dark Side of Human Nature with authorship contributions by C.G. Jung, Robert Bly, Joseph Campbell....& others. Copyright 1991 - classic theme.

That is not the question. The direct implication is that unless you are perfect, at all times, then you may be wrong here.
The problem with this is; just because one is not perfect does NOT mean one could not have come up with a completely perfect answer at that particular time. A person is a messenger, a postman, once the letter is delivered, the postman doesn't matter. The message does. You must take the message at face value and judge it objectively. A man at a bar could drunkenly mumble a perfectly logical argument.
The fact that he is mentally impaired at the time does not take away from the message.

Too many people judge the person and not the argument. The PERSON does not matter. The ARGUMENT is what matters.

The motive of the messenger also does not matter. "He is just mad and wants to lash out"...."He just wants to be the boss"....ad nauseum..... The MOTIVE does not matter. The ARGUMENT is what matters.





Everyone, I hope does NOT think irrationally most of the time...even if that were true...Again, it does not take anything away from that particular argument. A rational thought is the thought based upon Objective Reasoning...the taking of all the variables and applying logic to come up with the best solution for the situation. If someone rationalizes an irrational idea, it was done with Subjective Reasoning (The input and prioritization of anything other than that which is Objective)...Or it was the improper application of reasoning or logic.

Correct premise...Correct logic...Correct conclusion derived directly from the logical argument. If any of the three are incorrect...the answer MUST be incorrect. Of these three, the correct premise is the one most often incorrect. Whether by mistake...asking the wrong question...incorrect assumption (taking something as fact without any supporting evidence)...Relying upon incorrect stats...etc / Or by Deception..VERY often used by politicians and business through their marketing. Their thrust is almost always toward the Logical portion (the second of the big three). They will ask you, "Now isn't it logical?"
A perfectly logical argument (however incorrect the conclusion must be) can be made for anything....IF....you accept the initial premise. That is what must be looked at the most closely. Try to point out their flaw and their next defense is for you to try to disprove it. WRONG...They made the assertion...THEY must provide the supporting evidence for their premise. The stats used (A whole other subject), their methodology used to gather their stats and how it applies to their premise.

"Welcome to the human race"...hmmm....Because we are human and we are prone to making mistakes...we therefore are allowed to get a pass on being accountable for being Objectively Reasonable? The message is what we look at, because, otherwise...hey..I'm only human and I could be wrong so what do I know..what do you know...etc.

Humans separate themselves from all of the other animals by their Objective Reasoning skills. The correct answer lies within Objective Reasoning. A wrong answer may come about because of incorrect application of reasoning or because of the necessary variables not being available...not because the method of Objective Reasoning itself. True, in many cases, all is not known, therefore most things are theories. However, they are the most plausible with the available variables.

Many people simply throw out posits. An idea, usually based upon Subjective Reasoning...an opinion. No supporting evidence.

However, just because an utterance comes from another human doesn't necessarily make it an "opinion"..and therefore subject to dismissal as such. If it follows Objective Reasoning, it is a logical argument. Not necessarily a fact, but an argument designed to demonstrate why it would be the most plausible explanation or path to follow. It is in an open forum that such ideas flourish. To dismiss a logical argument as merely an opinion, without dissection and digestion, is attempted censorship. It comes about because too many people rely upon Subjective Reasoning and do not understand Objective Reasoning.

Now then...on to more "Human" affairs....Aspies / Autistic...hell, all Special Education persons lie especially close to my heart. I am no cold..unfeeling bastard...just a bastard...I feel deeply

I have been listening to this one song for hours now as I read posts and post my passions. I find it inspiring as I write. It speaks to me of the condition of the human heart...passionate...compassionate...of love and life...no, I don't understand the verbiage...but music is international...it plucks the heart strings of all. It is Il Devo's rendition of Unbreak my Heart.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yay4W9hkJJM&feature=related[/youtube]

Last edited by Kuma on 01 Jul 2010, 6:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

I had an Ego, when I was younger, but I got sick of arguing with others and hurting them, so I've gotten rid of it.

When I was younger someone would say something to me and I'd take it as fact so I'd always argue is was right even though it may not have been.

These days I get a bit shocked when I get it wrong and can sometimes admit to it.

One thing I don't like is when someone has a one sentence comment about a certain topic without any evidence to back it up. That's when I'll correct them.

I still have an opinion though and am very set in my ways. Sometimes when proven wrong I will change it but there are some things you can't convince me of.

more like a "just me being silly" statement

NO!! !

And if you ask again, you will go straight to bed without SUPPER!! !