Penn and Teller on Vaccinations and Autism

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15 Aug 2010, 12:04 pm

I recognize those guys! They played comedians named "Rebo and Zooty" on an episode of Babylon 5. Anyone see that episode?

Zoot zoot!

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ColdBlooded
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15 Aug 2010, 12:46 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Penn and Teller are Las Vegas comedians. Anything they say about anything must be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Their MO is to offend. I did like the recycling and the bottled wate episodes though.

Remember that P&T ARE NOT a news source.

Uhhg. I am aware that they are not a news source. They are *usually* right about the topics they cover, though... And even when i don't agree with them completely, they put information out there that makes you think about the issue more deeply.

On this issue specifically, i didn't learn anything that i didn't already know. I did agree with them completely on this episode though, and think it's nice that the rational side of the vaccine issue is being presented. It seems like unless i'm specifically looking at scientific information, all i hear is Jenny McCarthy and so-called "autism advocate" parents yelling about vaccines giving their kids autism.. And then other parents talking about how dangerous vaccines are, like even if this stuff was true they'd rather their kid die of a preventable disease than possibly be autistic. It's nice to see celebrities who will use their platform to argue against those people.

DW_a_mom
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15 Aug 2010, 2:36 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

thechadmaster wrote:

+1

They are spot on about some things, but I've seen them do stories on stuff where they are way off.

They were harsh on critics of GM foods (genetically modified) and made them look like idiots. Yes, the people they spoke to were idiots, but there are many negatives bundled into the GM market. Among them are....

1. Built in pesticides...nice for protecting crops, but ultimately YOU AND I ingest this poison. Poison in small amounts, taken long enough as documented consequences. Spray on pesticides can be washed off. Genetically coded toxins can't be washed off.

2. Crop dominance. GM crops contaminate indigenous crops. They destroy many indigenous plants in the areas they are planted, and since they are designed to be non-heirloom seed bearing, you have to keep buying the GM seed to plant every season. Great for the maker of the seed, but it ultimately means the farmer has no option if he can't pay the price. Indigenous crop seed is long destroyed by then.

3. Manufacturer thuggery. Makers of GM crop products aggressively protect their patents. Problem is that GM crops "cross pollinate" with other non-GM crops. Courts have ruled that if ANY genetic material is in your crop, it's a violation of the maker's patent and you are liable...for something NATURE does automatically and can't be prevented.

This is just some of the hidden evils of GM foods. Yes, it's nice that these GM crops can feed thousands more than natural crops, but at what hidden cost does it come with?

Sure, there is some "there," there, but not enough to warrant many of the things the movement has asked for. I didn't see the episode but were they attacking the science, or the overreaction and hysteria?

Food gets really complicated, because the ideal ways to cultivate our food supplies are expensive either by time or money. Not everyone can afford that, which is why the government has to be careful as to what is mandated, v. what is left to (hopefully informed) choice.

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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15 Aug 2010, 3:06 pm

ColdBlooded wrote:

I always liked Penn and Teller and regularly watch their Showtime show "BS," and now i just love them even more. Everyone here who gets Showtime should watch their latest episode on vaccinations. Did anyone else see it? Since most of you are well-educated on the topic, you probably won't learn anything new... But it's nice to see that they're on our side here and spreading knowledge that vaccines DO NOT cause autism. They did their research here, too. They covered the fact that diagnostic criteria have gotten wider, that the hyped up autism "treatments" out there don't work, the whole Jenny McCarthy thing... It was just very cool to see the reasonable side of this issue presented on tv for a change.

I am undecided about the entire controversy. If Thiomerisol is so harmless, why did the manufactures phase it out of some vaccines? Why is more attention being paid to vaccination schedules, so that infants do not inadvertently receive obscene doses of Thiomersal? Is it bowing to public pressure, or is a cover up going on. I don't admit to knowing what the answer is, but I will keep my mind open to all possible causes of autism (noting there could be more than one).
One thing for sure, if manufactures keep the Thimerisol out of vaccines, no one can blame them anymore.

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15 Aug 2010, 3:16 pm

The most common real problem associated with vaccines is Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS)

Here's a link... Guillain-Barre Syndrome

It is common enough to be a concern, but generally the effects are fairly limited. Only in rare cases does it cause lasting problems.

As for Penn and Teller not being a news source, of course that is true. But neither is Jenny McCarthy. What Penn and Teller try to do is to get people to think critically about the information they are getting. Instead of simply accepting an argument because it happens to validate what you already believe, it is a good idea to think about the information you are hearing, consider the source, look deeper than the surface etc.

Penn and Teller are comedians and I wouldn't assume they were experts on the subject. In fact, if I understand it correctly, they DON'T claim to be experts on Autism. But Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carey do make direct statements as If they were facts and many people swallow those whole. Four comedians. Two that claim expert knowledge and two that just demand that people think for themselves and not believe whatever someone with a famous name says.

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15 Aug 2010, 3:32 pm

This is why I rather watch comedians than news reporters. Most of the time reporters do nothing but shove BS in your face, while comedians point out all that BS... plus they're funnier

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15 Aug 2010, 3:35 pm

if any of you care about non-human animals you need to remember that these two men think animals are only worth what they can do for humans. 'they' have said that in order to save the most worthless single human on the planet, they are willing to sacrifice all non-human animals for that. 'they' have said that no matter what kinds of horrible torture chimps have to endure for 30-40 years, to help a single human, it's worth it.

their program discussing peta was full of lies and false accusations. just absolute nonsense.

they suck.

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15 Aug 2010, 4:51 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

One thing for sure, if manufactures keep the Thimerisol out of vaccines, no one can blame them anymore.

Thimerosal is no longer in vaccines, nor is any amount of mercury used as in vaccines (which is why the anti-vaxxers have moved on to aluminium). In fact, this is one of the ways that researchers were able to test the mercury-vaccine connection as autism rates continued to increase after the removal.

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15 Aug 2010, 4:54 pm

danandlouie wrote:

That was the eppisode that made me dislike Penn & Teller as well. I can't stand people who justifiy animal abuse and tourture becuase it "helps" people. If it is so helpful why don't we have the cure to cancer or at least the common cold by now? Also the polio vaccine was developed sucessfully via human trials. I'm not that crazy about "people lovers" in the first place but people who like to torture innocent animals and endorse it to "help" other people are the lowest form of philth. If you are such a saintly do gooder and love people so much go give blood or volunteer at the homeless shelter. If you love people so much get off your lazy butt and do something that actualy is helping people.

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Last edited by PunkyKat on 16 Aug 2010, 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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15 Aug 2010, 5:03 pm

Celoneth wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

One thing for sure, if manufactures keep the Thimerisol out of vaccines, no one can blame them anymore.

It's still in flu vaccines, DTaP (Tripedia), DT, Td, TT, Hep A- Hep B and Meningococcal,

Celoneth
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15 Aug 2010, 7:51 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Celoneth wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

One thing for sure, if manufactures keep the Thimerisol out of vaccines, no one can blame them anymore.

It's still in flu vaccines, DTaP (Tripedia), DT, Td, TT, Hep A- Hep B and Meningococcal,

You're right. Most of those are administered when to older children and adults though - so removal from early childhood vaccines like MMR should have at least reduced autism rates somewhat if that link had any validity.

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15 Aug 2010, 8:01 pm

LostInSpace wrote:

I recognize those guys! They played comedians named "Rebo and Zooty" on an episode of Babylon 5. Anyone see that episode?

Zoot zoot!

The episode is called Day of the Dead. Babylon 5 is one of my favourite all time shows. I have actually met Penn and Teller in person. Unlike his character Zooty, Teller does not remain in character when not performing.

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16 Aug 2010, 4:39 am

WHO wrote:

* Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
* In 2008, there were 164 000 measles deaths globally – nearly 450 deaths every day or 18 deaths every hour.
* More than 95% of measles deaths occur in low-income countries with weak health infrastructures.
* Measles vaccination resulted in a 78% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2008 worldwide.
* In 2008, about 83% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 72% in 2000.

Vaccination does harm a minute proportion of those vaccinated, as opposed to a large proportion dying in those who are not vaccinated.

Where "life expectancy" is quoted as 60 years, or 50 years, almost all of that difference (from out 80 or so) is made up of dead babies and dead children. Seeing children dying and severely disabled by preventable disease is tragic.

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16 Aug 2010, 5:43 am

.......the Inuit say that the wolf keeps the caribou strong............ by killing the weak and old, keeping the gene pool healthy.......

Penn and Tellers careers would go belly up, if they ever said anything against big pharma or companies like Monsanto re GM crops. The networks would never air it. They are paid to say what they say

The general truths re vaccines is still unknown to me

laustcawz
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05 Apr 2011, 4:01 am

So Penn & Teller are magicians/comedians (or as Penn has said, a couple of guys who can "do a lot of cool stuff")? Official news reporters get paid, too. Just because they're expected to be taken more seriously doesn't make them (or their sources) infallible. Many people have come to consider "The Daily Show" the most reliable & honest news report & that's on Comedy Central (for which Penn was the announcer for years, BTW). Comedians are supposed to be irreverent &, in being so, they much more often single out the real truths behind whatever's going on than those who have agendas determined by higher economic powers. As for the guys being magicians, there's a reason they're called "magic tricks" (P&T don't claim to be supernatural, as have some of the charlatans they've exposed and P&T are atheists anyway--at least I'm assuming Teller is--he never speaks), but "BS" has a different purpose. The hosting segments always have some gags or visual shenanigans, but this is never confused with the importance of whatever the topic is. Penn & Teller never take themselves seriously, but they always take their work very seriously. The whole subject of autism seems very dubious, in terms of it being a "disorder" & I was hoping there would be a whole episode addressing this, but at least there's one about one of the biggest myths being circulated. BRAVO!!

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05 Apr 2011, 9:26 am

I have 4 kids and none of them have been vaccinated. One of my 4 is on the spectrum. I believe that vaccinations can make austism worse. The symptoms more pronounced. If not, then why when a person/child is chelated do they do a 180? Why do children act normally until 18 months then suddenly stop babble, eye contact ect. Real people like you and I have had this happen. I am just glad I didnt vaccinate my children because my son could be a whole lot worse off then he is now.

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