The inability of autistics to earn a living
PlatedDrake
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,365
Location: Piedmont Region, NC, USA
I've been working since I was 17, have now had 8 jobs since, gotten 2 Assoc. degrees, and now working 2 jobs that amount less than $800 a month total. I've probably applied for nearly 500 jobs since 2007 into the fields I've studied, and still no luck getting that $24K+/Year job. However, it's been my luck that I finish my education just in time for the peak of the recession, so I think those unemployed will be considerably lucky if they manage to get a salary job before 2015. Does it suck that the US corporations are penny pinching at the expense of their local work base . . . yes. But unless they make a law that states, "All people under of the employ of an American company must be paid at American wages, regardless of locale (ie, if $7.50 is starting pay for an American citizen, it must be the same for their foreign sites)." But, the higher ups are making the mistake of turning America into a consumer nation . . . if we don't produce our own stuff, we risk making ourselves overly reliant on nations that may end up hating our guts (lead from Chinese products case in point).
In the 24 years since leaving university with a lower second honours degree in psychology and biology I have had 15 jobs, lasting a grand total of about 7 years; three were seasonal or temporary, four were full-time permanent, and seven were part-time permanent, ( but I didn't last very long in most of them ). The longest that I lasted in any job was just under 3 years as a jobshare/part-time ( one week "on" and one week "off" ) library assistant, the next longest was 18 months full-time in a tax office ( which was the first proper job I got after uni ), and next longest 10 months as tax accountant. The others I lasted between 1 day and 3 months. I have been a full-time stay-at-home mother for the last 11 years. It's the only job that I have ever managed to stick to for more than 3 years. I can just about handle the social interaction involved; the first couple of years were grim/nightmarish, but at least it's usually one-to-one, and I have more-or-less got the hang of it/can make sense of it.
I used to work because I needed the money, and that was what everybody else did, but I was very bad at it; I didn't understand the point of most of it, but loved doing the meticulous pen and paper calculations of taxes etc, which unfortunately the advent of computers swept away. As part of the standard "career progression" associated with my tax office post I had to do at least 6 months of management work, but I was so unable to manage anyone, and fraternised terribly with the "lowliest" of clerks at the pub, etc that noone was surprised when I suddenly decided to move, from London to the farthest end of England, and they shifted me back to pure paperwork for the last couple of months so as to train someone else at the management post. The office was on flexi-time, and I got in late, left early, took the longest lunchhours possible, ( reading a book at the local vege restaurant in an art gallery ), while always planning to make it up at some later date ... which I never quite got round to ... my flexi-time-sheets became so scary ( hundreds of hours in "debt" ) that I hid them and pretended to have lost them.
At the next job, tax accountant, I had a little office all to myself. I used to spend hours staring through the window at the seagulls wheeling in the sky above the roofs, ... and guiltily open a file and rustle pages if someone came to enquire about anything. I simply couldn't seem to make myself actually do any of the things that I was supposed to be doing. Luckily the boss was a financial trickster of some kind, he ended up in prison a couple of years after I left, and his attention to the office was concentrated on the "big" clients, and to keeping up appearances, and I was good at that! :lol Gradually the dozen or so other people in the place began to realise that I did almost nothing, but they were very nice about it. Noone was surprised when I decided to leave to go travelling round Europe ( and supposedly to start an MA at a uni in the autumn afterwards, but which I dropped out of after 7 weeks because my mood-disorder/hypo mania and bouts of depression were becoming uncontrollable ), and the boss was relieved, because he was trying to cut back on staff but was too addicted to being charming and well-liked to actually tell anyone to go.
I lasted almost three years at the library, because I had a week off between each bout, and it was ok to stare into space for hours when working at the enquiry counters. I used to doodle, draw faces. Some of my best artwork dates from that time! :lol
I have generally failed to see the point of most jobs, and/or failed to understand why they were going about achieving whatever the stated goal was in the way that they were; it almost always seemed highly illogical and inefficient to me, paralysingly so.
I almost walked out on the job of mother ( and part-time housekeeper ) too. I thought of leaving every week, sometimes every day, for the first two and a half years, but I've got used to it, and have achieved a reasonably in fact unprecedently good ( mostly affectionate and cooperative and communicative ) working relationship with my son's father.
But it's taken 12 years to achieve this. And mainly one-to-one social interaction, and fairly clear goals, ones which "have" to be met, for fairly obvious reasons.
I remember starting a cleaning job, something really simple I thought, and leaving after half a day, because I couldn't tell how clean they wanted things, and what part exactly of the shop they wanted cleaning, and which cleaning materials to use from the bewildering huge range of cleaning products in the cleaning cupboard, and whether I could wear my own clothes under the cleaning overall/uniform or not, and what to do about cleaning floors near clients, etc.
I have an honours degree in psychology and biology, and a cleaning job was beyond me. Actually I only got the degree because I am a very good waffler and "off-the-top-of-the-head" "exam-acing" person.
I totally agree with the OP about how difficult it is for people on the spectrum to find and keep work, seeing how most work is organised, trained for, disconnected from the rest of life, so that it feels unbelievably alien, incomprehensible, etc. It seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with anything that I was familiar with, after all those years in the ghetto that is school and further ed.
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Last edited by ouinon on 31 Aug 2010, 10:54 am, edited 6 times in total.
I've been at my current employer for 5 years, 4 months and 8 days - but my employment involves an interest of mine, so I could do it all day, and I have a reasonable amount of solitary time. Such is the life of on-site technology work, which I've been doing for the last 3 years. Previously, at the same employer, I was shoved back in a cave where computers magically came out repaired.
Previously, I worked at a rifle range where attention to detail and having a loud voice were far more important than being friendly, since safety is paramount.
Last edited by jec6613 on 31 Aug 2010, 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
fired for having cancer? If that happened to me, I'd be going to the Human Rights Commission or the Labour board. If an employer did that in Canada, they would have their pants sued off and the government might even help the plaintiff with costs.
Can't. America. Fewer than 15 employees. They can be dicks if they want.
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spooky13
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Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 499
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Have you actually got any solid evidence that this is the case? And no, forum posts don't count.
Actually, with the economy being the way it is, it's tough for anyone to find work, aspie or not. At least, a job that pays enough to survive on.
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"Why do it today when I can put it off until tomorrow."
Diagnosed aspie with an NT alter-ego.
Have you actually got any solid evidence that this is the case? And no, forum posts don't count.
Actually, with the economy being the way it is, it's tough for anyone to find work, aspie or not. At least, a job that pays enough to survive on.
Exactly. I see no evidence to suggest autistics are any more effected than the general population.
Have you actually got any solid evidence that this is the case? And no, forum posts don't count.
Actually, with the economy being the way it is, it's tough for anyone to find work, aspie or not. At least, a job that pays enough to survive on.
Yeah, the 'enough to survive on' part is operative. I graduated from college in 2006 and have had a few jobs since then. All of them have been minimum wage or maybe 50 cents more, per hour. Most of them have not been full-time and most haven't had any benefits. I've applied for countless better-paying jobs but haven't gotten them. Where I live, the cost of housing is so high that a lot of homeless people in the area actually have full-time jobs. Luckily my family lets me live with them, or I'd probably be homeless as well. I think "underemployment" is just as problematic as unemployment.
I'm glad you were able to make it work after all.
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Dum vita est, spes est.
Hi Asp-Z,
In regards to "The inability of autistics to earn a living" and your responses of:
"Have you actually got any solid evidence that this is the case? And no, forum posts don't count." And,
"I see no evidence to suggest autistics are any more effected than the general population."
Have you looked before you decided not to see any evidence? Such as page 2, first column, of:
http://www.worksupport.com/documents/JV ... Revell.pdf
I would prefer the phraseology of "The failure of society to provide a conducive environment for significant gainful activities of individuals diagnosed with the labeled disorder of autism", at both ends of the spectrum of the rainbow. And, activities gainful enough so as the individual is not frequently classified as categorically needy in terms of financial wealth.
Tadzio
Have you actually got any solid evidence that this is the case? And no, forum posts don't count.
Actually, with the economy being the way it is, it's tough for anyone to find work, aspie or not. At least, a job that pays enough to survive on.
Exactly. I see no evidence to suggest autistics are any more effected than the general population.
You probably don't want to see it. I guess you are in school or college, and have the work minefield mostly ahead of you. You seem smart and well adapted already for one so young, I sincerely hope you never do have a problem gaining and maintaining employment.
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auntblabby
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Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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Posts: 114,574
Location: the island of defective toy santas
on these forums with people who [frankly] should know better, many of the higher-functioning people seem haughtily disdainful of the lower-functioning people, with the former disregarding and discounting the travails of the latter. this is depressing to me. i was hoping that Wrong Planet was a place of refuge from the politicking and gainsaying of the right planet. but i was mistaken.
Have you actually got any solid evidence that this is the case? And no, forum posts don't count.
Actually, with the economy being the way it is, it's tough for anyone to find work, aspie or not. At least, a job that pays enough to survive on.
Exactly. I see no evidence to suggest autistics are any more effected than the general population.
You probably don't want to see it. I guess you are in school or college, and have the work minefield mostly ahead of you. You seem smart and well adapted already for one so young, I sincerely hope you never do have a problem gaining and maintaining employment.
Don't worry about me, I'm going to make myself rich, whether achieving that involves employment or not.
I despair of such attitudes as well. But I think this merly reflects the general disdain and outright hatred displayed by the general population towards anyone with a learning disability. A lot of this attitude boils down to ignorance. But for some it is a misguided expression of resentment of being associated with people who have profound difficulties in issues beyond their autistic spectrum diagnosis.
There's a distinction. I don't think it's so much that aspies are incapable of making a living for themselves. It's just that the pool of suitable jobs is smaller and it's harder for us to find good jobs without outside help since we aren't as good at "selling ourselves". I see it as more of a problem with the way the capitalist system operates. It's "every man for himself" rather than people collectively working together to find suitable employment for each individual. I can totally see how someone on the spectrum without social support or a family that gives a sh*t will end up having to rely completely on SSI even while someone with the exact same set of skills with more social support ends up being gainfully employed.
The problem is the system of "every man for himself" which is chiefly an American capitalistic invention. We like to pretend we are all "rugged individuals" while in reality we depend on others for almost everything we own or consume. The "self made man" is a bullsh*t American fantasy. Nobody is truly self made. Everyone's success is a product of their social environment and the society that surrounds them. The kind of attitude that pretends to deny this just doesn't work for all people, and it's not even how communities operated in traditional tribal or agrarian societies.
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