Eugenics is alive and well in Britain

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Asp-Z
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18 Oct 2010, 2:17 pm

Update!

Quote:

PAID STERILISATION EXTENDED TO PEOPLE WHO STILL LIKE GLEE

A PROGRAMME of paid sterilisation is to be extended to people who are still watching Glee.

A charity which gives drug addicts £200 to have a vasectomy or hysterectomy now wants to offer money to people who think the US show is cool and original instead of being exactly the same as High School Musical.

A spokesman for Project Prevention said: "Every day we get letters from concerned citizens warning of the dire social consequences that will be caused by a generation of Glee babies.

"Our streets will be swamped with millions of people claiming that something is not a just another f*****g soap opera when that is obviously what it is.

"And I speak as someone who enjoyed the first couple of episodes - especially the bit where the gay one sings Beyoncé and then kicks the football.

"But I soon realised that beneath the surface there is just layers and layers of surface. I don't even think the nasty PE teacher should be given her own show. There, I f*****g said it."

Tom Logan, a self-taught expert on human sterilisation from Peterborough, said: "I would have done the Glee-watchers before the drug addicts, but both of them provide an excellent jumping off point.

"I could give a long list of who's next but to save us all a bit of time let's just say the list is comprehensive and includes you, whoever you happen to be.

"And in case you're wondering, it also includes me, given that I am just an angry little man who can't handle his booze and whose genes must be stopped dead in their tracks.

"And while I do think that it's rather sweet to offer money, I feel that my method of marching huge columns of human filth into clinics at gunpoint will get the job done with just that little bit more urgency.

"If it makes them feel more comfortable they could watch an episode of Glee or Grey's Anatomy or even Masterchef while an under-qualified Polish doctor sets about their reproductive area with a rotary hand-whisk."

He added: "Don't look at me like that. You're all thinking it but because I actually came out and said it, that somehow makes me the bad guy?

"f**k the lot of you."

And yes, this is a parody article :lol:

DemonAbyss10
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18 Oct 2010, 2:31 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:

I don't care about the slippery slope argument in this case; I'm more concerned by the fact that such addicts might recover, and might be quite fit to be parents then. Why is everyone assuming that the only possibility is that these people will remain as they are, and judging their fitness to ever be parents by their fitness to be parents now?

Anyway, looking past that, I still can't consider the slippery slope because I'm aware of how desperate an addict can be for a fix, and they'll make all kinds of bad decisions. This is taking advantage of how desperate they are for cash to get their next fix. This is offering them their addiction in exchange for something that should be considered carefully.

I disagree with DemonAbyss10 for two reasons:
1. Who gave you the right to determine who is and who is not fit to live?
2. Regardless of their utility in this moment, as long as they do live, they might change.

And I believe in something called far too many people, its why I think there are so many problems with the world. Yeah, my views may be a bit extreme for some, so what, they are just opinions, I won't change them just to make people less offended or happier with things. If people don't like them, they don't like them. So yeah, I support whatever is necessary to curb overpopulation. With the program in question, its up to the addict's choice, and since its up to them whether to do it or not, I am not gonna be against it in any way shape or form. The only form of population control I really don't condone is straight up murdering or forcing it upon people. But if those addicts use the money to buy more drugs, and then OD< I really could care less.

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DemonAbyss10
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18 Oct 2010, 2:34 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

I assume you mean sterilization. You will notice that the offer is for voluntary sterilization. No one is being dragged off for gelding.

ruveyn

If a drug addicted person is fully cognizant of their actions then it is voluntary. But if the drug addicted person sees paid sterilization as a way to get their next fix, then it is coercive.

A slippery slope.

Still, the individual in question is making a choice. What would be a way to prevent at least some of what you view as coercion would be to make them be sober so they can think before they decide. As long as some valid form of thought is going on before they decide what to do, then for all intents, let them choose what they want.

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Xeno
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18 Oct 2010, 2:40 pm

Jeyradan wrote:

I wish someone would pay me a nice wad of cash simply for the fact that I don't ever plan to have children...

Same here. Or I'd be REALLY happy with a free vasectomy.

Laz
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18 Oct 2010, 2:48 pm

Another americain imported idea. Great

wavefreak58
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18 Oct 2010, 2:54 pm

DemonAbyss10 wrote:

wavefreak58 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

I assume you mean sterilization. You will notice that the offer is for voluntary sterilization. No one is being dragged off for gelding.

ruveyn

This is what the slippery slope is. Where do you draw the line between someone that understands their actions and someone that doesn't? Someone recovering from childhood abuse may have PTSD and is using drugs or alcohol to numb themselves. Is such a person really thinking of the future?

Addiction doesn't happen in isolation from other social pressure. And as soon as something like this is available, there begins to be some reaction by society as to its acceptability. If deemed acceptable, there is an inevitable gravitation towards it be a social "obligation" and then a ultimately a requirement.

PangeLingua
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18 Oct 2010, 3:28 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:

I agree with you - and I think the slippery slope argument is valid too. But even presuming that there was no slippery slope, I do think it is unethical to manipulate these people in this way .... in case that wasn't clear.

grendel
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18 Oct 2010, 3:45 pm

I don't think its unethical. They're probably making more of a choice to get sterilized than they would when they got somebody pregnant. I have known quite a few people in real life (male or female) who opted for surgery to prevent having children, and they weren't on drugs. They simply didn't want kids or they'd already had kids and didn't want any more kids. The drug addicted people probably can't afford this surgery on their own. And they have a choice anyway, it's not being forced on them. To say they don't have a choice because they are on drugs would make offering them money to do anything at all unethical, and would also excuse any means of getting money (say, robbing a bank) for the same reason. Being on drugs doesn't make you unaccountable, and people still make decisions on how to live (not to mention the decision to use the drugs in the first place). The decision to get sterilized might be one of the more responsible ones.

Don't get me wrong, I love kids, I have a kid, and I wouldn't want to be sterilized nor would ever have considered this. There are other people who DON'T want to have kids (maybe they know they wouldn't be good parents, or maybe they simply have no interest, or they have medical or other reasons... or they've already had enough. Or they know they aren't careful enough about not getting pregnant). It's still their choice. It's better than getting an abortion later, in my opinion.

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18 Oct 2010, 3:49 pm

I know if I did it the very next day I probably meet the woman of my dreams who would leave for being incapable of creating children. :wink:

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18 Oct 2010, 4:01 pm

Compulsion is not a necessary element of eugenics - the intent is to favour birth amongst desirables and discourage birth amongst undesirables.

Perhaps the attitude would be different if a charitable foundation was formed to offer £200 to anybody with autism who underwent a vasectomy? It would not be so different from sterilisation and hysterectomy of deaf or epileptic people, people with Down's syndrome, unmarried mothers and black women in recent history, up until at least the 1980s.

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18 Oct 2010, 4:46 pm

StuartN wrote:

It's only eugenics if the people offering the sterilisation think that drug addiction is genetic. If they don't then what they are actually trying to prevent is the birth of children who will be neglected because drug addicted parents can't care for them.

wavefreak58
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18 Oct 2010, 4:50 pm

Janissy wrote:

StuartN wrote:

Do you really think that policy makers distinguish between genetic and not genetic? That seems a stretch of the imagination considering the paucity of rational thinking in government.

SteamPowerDev
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18 Oct 2010, 4:56 pm

I would sign up for this. In the US it's rather hard to find a doctor who is willing to do such operations unless you have already had children or is past a certain age.

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18 Oct 2010, 5:04 pm

Janissy wrote:

StuartN wrote:

Isn't it? I'll have to look up whether they've actually studied the matter.

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Marcia
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18 Oct 2010, 5:33 pm

It is eugenics in the wider sense in that this woman and her organisation have decided that a certain group of people are not "fit" to have children.

In the UK both sterilisation and long-term contraception are freely available on the NHS (National Health Service) and those agencies already working to support and assist drug addicts will certainly encourage addicts to think about those options, with the second being the more favoured as it is not permanent. There is no need to "bribe" or pay people.

I think this project is unethical on a number of levels. It targets the poor and vulnerable, which is what drug addicts are, and does absolutely nothing to alleviate the many social and economic problems they face on a daily basis. It offers a financial inducement to people who may be desperate enough to take it, knowing that they are desperate and so not necessarily making a "free" choice. I think it demeans and dehumanises people to pay them any amount of money, never mind a paltry £200 for their fertility.

This whole thing disgusts me and I hope this woman and her "charity" are prohibited from operating in the UK.

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18 Oct 2010, 5:51 pm

Jeyradan wrote:

I wish someone would pay me a nice wad of cash simply for the fact that I don't ever plan to have children...

Yeah me too. I'm getting a hystorectomy soon but I have to pay for it. I wish I could be payed for getting it.

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