Superficialness of NT socialization=mind numbingly painful

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We're a constantly evolving species. That means there is going to be diversity in the gene pool, including neurodiversity. There are many positive qualities associated with AS, and that's why it's so common in the gene pool. If it was such a bad thing it would be more rare.

I bet when the first monkey stood up and evolved bipedalism, it didn't fit in with all the other monkeys who were still walking on all fours. Of course those monkeys walking on all fours probably had many patterns of behavior, including how they foraged, hunted, socialized, and groomed one another, which their bipedalistic monkey brother/sister might have had a difficult time joining in with. However the benefits of bipedalism was such that eventually the frequency of this trait became extremely common, and that's why 7 million years later we're all walking upright.

In 7 million years it's quite likely that the neurological profile of a typical person will be unlike that of a typical person today. It's my opinion that the AS qualities of remarkable honesty and a love of knowledge will find their way in there, whilst the NT qualities of telling white lies to avoid offending people, and loving chit-chat more than knowledge, will slowly be filtered out. After all, what benefit do they actually serve? The belief that AS is potentially a good thing is not a groundless one -- far from it.

All these arguments that try to explain our behavior through an evolutionary perspective always drive me insane. They seem plausible sometimes, but more often than not they're just insane.

Why.

In other news, I've always loved conversations where people talk about nothing. It's the bond that's formed over the conversation that matters, not the content of the conversation itself.

"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" - Christian Theodosius

Wow. Okay maybe I have a bit more knowledge in this. I can often steer a conversation to what interests me. Being a skilled conversationalist though is just that, being a skilled conversationalist. I am rather shy unless I get on a topic I find interesting. Talk about your kids, families, sports, or other stuff I find uninteresting I always leave. But if you want to talk about international economics, philosophy, demographics, music, etc, I can hold a conversation for hours on end and it ends up being entertaining and enlightening for both parties involved.

Many conversations though are hopelessly superficial, but I try to avoid those to the best of my ability. My advice is if you really want to participate socially in events that offer intellectual conversation the best advice is to seek out social events that attract smart people. I don't know, maybe this is easier to do in DC because there are smart people in the area who are enthusiastic about intellectual conversation.

Also drinking does help to a certian degree.

Last edited by starygrrl on 08 Dec 2010, 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't believe that the aspie style of communication is superior to the NT style, but it is different. Each group gets something out of their style of communication. I've never been able to socialize with a group of NTs in their way. It's hard for me to describe but their conversation seems to flow as a group with the focus on the group and not often one person. An analogy would be a symphony orchestra with all the instruments contributing to the final sound with the occasional solo part. If I try to participate in that sort of conversation, I break the flow, always playing a solo when I'm supposed to be just part of the orchestra. That's okay with one other person but it doesn't work in a group.

I find I don't get much out of this rapid fire group conversation style, just a tired brain from trying to keep up. The one-on-one exchange of useful information style is what works for me.

Wow, I just came up with a very good evolutionary explanation

Anyway, yes I see it as superficial and pointless, to me a conversation must have a point and that people should accept me for who I am, so I struggle with the idea of sucking up to anyone.

But the point is the NT's obviously dont see it as pointless therefore it must have some point, it may just be that we are unable to see it because of how we are.

I have to ask though, how can anyone say any person or group of people is better or superior to another?
From what I have seen everyone is balanced mentally or physically; where one person has a superiority in one area he lacks in another. Albeit the circumstances change whether or not the strength of a cetain trait is useful or not.

Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter

I agree with many of the posts but I think my topics/interests of conversations can be really boring for others. All I talk about is mental illness, strength training/penis size and philosophy of physics/metaphysics. I have only 1 friend that is kinda interested in the first two and zero friends that are interested in the last one. When I go out I'm quiet/silent unless it's funny. I like humour when I understand it. And I always try to force the conversations toward my interests and then I can't stop talking and everybody tries to change topics because everybody seems only interested in a very superficial understanding of my stuff.

Heh, them topics arnt that bad
I would happily talk about them, I often find that I have a problem thinking of something to say, I mean that literally, even to people I like. Sometimes I think the NT's have it easier even if it seems boring to me.

Heck, I cant really start a conversation with a girl I have a strong crush on, not because I am shy just because I cant think of anything to say. Plus its pretty embarrasing that she realised that I can talk better on the computer than in person, im glad she dosent ask me why.

Sometimes I wonder if they just understand something that goes straight over my head and thats why they find superficial stuff so interesting

innermusic, i really liked your take on the purpose of the conversation. it seems pretty dang accurate. i had to point out tho that this, above, is definitely not accurate for all NTs. for the majority, probably, 3 out of 4 or a bit more or less, but not for all of us. i am endlessly frustrated by the generalization that all NTs can easily socialize and chat without a care in the world, or worse, that we all enjoy sports, fashion, and bad reality tv.

i must be somewhere below a caveman on the evolutionary scale, cause i cant do it. i can force myself, but i usually end up standing there silent for 99% of the time. am i staring too much, or not making enough eye contact? where else do i look? should i chime in and share my story? uh oh, i think ive been talking too long, no one else is saying anything. excellent, the hors d'oeuvres are out, at least i can stuff my mouth and not be expected to chat. damn, can i just go home and play WoW?

for me, its not fun, not easy, not comfortable, and not enjoyable. some of us are just as bad socially, even worse than some of you. maybe the misconceptions are because those are the NTs that you see when you go out, but there are a whole lot of us who arent interested in socializing sitting at home playing on the computer, or doing whatever WE are interested in.

NT is a spectrum too!

It makes me proud to be an aspie.

Great point - I completely agree with that! I guess in my example, I was trying to highlight, as a contrast, one of the strengths that NTs can have vs. ASD spectrum folks, who by definition would probably not do well for long in a circle of 5 people chatting casually. To me, it seems like one of the hardest things to do, socially. Introverted NTs probably prefer not to hang out and socialize day after day, like you said. But aspies can have it tough because of the extra problems with non-verbal communication. I could list some examples, but like you said about a "spectrum" it's really different for each individual.

I have a son with ASD, but my daughter is a complete social gal. She did not learn it in our introvert-haven type home - she picked it up on her own in that instantaneous way I mentioned. It's just something she can do, and she doesn't give it any thought - it just happens. (for her, so easy a caveman can do it....) I watch in amazement, really. I wish I could do that - but I always screw it up somehow.

I absolutely agree. I'm sick of the aspergers superiority around here. It's sickening.

Yeah, having way too much knowledge about something doesn't make anyone superior...!

Whoa. AceOfSpades, that was a bit harsh, don't you think? I'm not saying I agree with the original poster, but I think you could have stated your disagreement in a nicer way.

As for the topic itself, it's definitely not true that all NT's are superficial and have no desire to talk about deep stuff. The people you mentioned are probably just acquaintances and only know each other on a superficial level, so they start off by just hanging out at bars and seeing how well they click. It has more to do with how they interact than with what they talk about, as menintights said.

NT's do talk about deep stuff, but mainly with family and close friends.

I don't need to sugarcoat it so people don't get their little duck feelings hurt. I'm not the nicest person, but I don't go out my way to be an as*hole. Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean you have to bash it. Why act like it's so below you when it actually goes over your head? It makes you come across as a douche.

NT's have a time and place for deep talk, and hanging out in a bar isn't one of em.

i have one of those, too. my middle son is a social butterfly. with an autistic dad and introvert mom, i dunno where it came from, but hes got it in spades. we go to the park and within 2 minutes hes running around playing with a group of kids, pick him up after school and hes got a dozen kids frantically waving and calling his name from the buses as we walk by.

i just see all these threads about NT socializing, and its always a lament about how hard it is for autistics and how easy for NTs, when that is simply not the case. just because we dont have autism doesnt make us all clones exactly the same. we each have difficulties in various ways.

for my asd son, i want him to feel he fits in with autistics, but i always want to stress the similarities he has with NTs. this IS his planet, and i dont want him to feel he has nothing in common with the majority of the world. he has plenty in common with me, or his social brother, or the kids at his school.

all you have to do is look past the diagnosis, or lack of one, and find the similarities with individual people. you dont need to fit in with an entire population, or even all the people in a bar. just a select few in the world around you, autistic or not, real life or virtual.