Survival Mode Theory
annbuend=
Quote:
And basically most people seem to have energy reserves that are only tapped into in survival situations. Because they need to be able to carry on even when they're dog-tired and would otherwise collapse. And I think for autistic people who find the so-called basics of daily life difficult, we end up taking energy out of those reserves in order to just carry on a little longer past when we would otherwise collapse from exertion. It may also help us carry out tasks that are beyond our normal abilities at moments where we have to do that thing in order to survive.
The trouble with digging into those energy reserves is they're supposed to be for emergencies. It's like a person in chronic poverty may end up depleting their emergency savings. This happens both bit by bit, and in larger chunks when some moderate but necessary financial need comes up.
Anyway if you read through all that, the reason I think we may be talking about different things.
Is that the way I'm talking about this, it doesn't require stress. It doesn't require a fight-flight response being triggered by anything. It only requires more energy than the person has to give, over a long period of time. Of course those things can be involved but they're far from necessary for what I was describing to happen. Just like anxiety and pain aren't necessary for overload.
As far as social stuff goes, I do find it difficult and draining like any autistic person. But it's not as difficult for me as all those little "basic" tasks are. And nowhere near as all-encompassing. I'm lucky in a way that I burned out young or I'd be in serious danger of my life right now from lack of services
The trouble with digging into those energy reserves is they're supposed to be for emergencies. It's like a person in chronic poverty may end up depleting their emergency savings. This happens both bit by bit, and in larger chunks when some moderate but necessary financial need comes up.
Anyway if you read through all that, the reason I think we may be talking about different things.
Is that the way I'm talking about this, it doesn't require stress. It doesn't require a fight-flight response being triggered by anything. It only requires more energy than the person has to give, over a long period of time. Of course those things can be involved but they're far from necessary for what I was describing to happen. Just like anxiety and pain aren't necessary for overload.
As far as social stuff goes, I do find it difficult and draining like any autistic person. But it's not as difficult for me as all those little "basic" tasks are. And nowhere near as all-encompassing. I'm lucky in a way that I burned out young or I'd be in serious danger of my life right now from lack of services
This is a very good description of how much more stressful life is for a person that has Autism. It is also a perfect description of someone that is in long term survival mode or "burn out". When you speak of taking energy out of reserves to do the small things for survival that is the flight or fight response; while not taxing or considered stressful to most people it is a matter of survival to you. It's not to say that the fight or fight response has to be evoked by what is normally considered to be a real danger, the energy you dip into are the stress hormones adrenaline and cortisol (that is the physiological fight or flight response; it is a hormonal response required for extra energy). It could happen to an NT person if they have a bad-hair day or a person that is excited because they won the lottery or in an Autistic person's case the ability to get the emergency energy required to do the "small things in life". Whenever a person requires more energy than the person has to give over a long period of time they can exhaust the stress response, because they don't rest and recover (the state of physical burn-out or exhaustion). This can make all aspects of life harder.
I think we are both describing the same physiological process, but our definitions of stress may be a little different. As related to the fight or flight response I am defining stress as the additional energy generated by the hormones of adrenaline and cortisol in response to a real or perceived threat to survival. The same physiological effect, or stress, can be released by something considered exciting and positive or as mundane as brushing your teeth or flushing the toilet. In other words Emergency Energy, the flight or fight response, excitement over something positive can all be considered stressful in the sense that they generate higher than normal levels of the stress hormones adrenaline and cortisol.
Ugh, not having a good writing day (or any other kind of day), but here goes:
I saw this about something called "complex PTSD":
Quote:
Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD) is a psychological injury that results from protracted exposure to prolonged social and/or interpersonal trauma with lack or loss of control, disempowerment, and in the context of either captivity or entrapment, i.e. the lack of a viable escape route for the victim. C-PTSD is distinct from, but similar to, posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Though mainstream journals have published papers on C-PTSD, the category is not formally recognized in diagnostic systems such as DSM or ICD.[1]
I don't want to say it's the exactly the same as the full-blown thing, since that includes flat-out life-threatening situations, being a prisoner of war, and long-term childhood sexual abuse, and such. But, I wonder if on a lesser level this could be related to certain traits or responses to the world in (some, at least) autistic people. The idea seems to be that inescapable, chronic stress leads to certain things/responses.
The following is the "Child and adolescent symptom cluster," which is more interesting for my purposes here than the adult symtoms:
Quote:
Cook and others[31][32] describe symptoms and behavioural characteristics in seven domains:
Attachment - "problems with relationship boundaries, lack of trust, social isolation, difficulty perceiving and responding to other’s emotional states, and lack of empathy"
Biology - "sensory-motor developmental dysfunction, sensory-integration difficulties, somatization, and increased medical problems"
Affect or emotional regulation - "poor affect regulation, difficulty identifying and expressing emotions and internal states, and difficulties communicating needs, wants, and wishes"
Dissociation - "amnesia, depersonalization, discrete states of consciousness with discrete memories, affect, and functioning, and impaired memory for state-based events"
Behavioural control - "problems with impulse control, aggression, pathological self-soothing, and sleep problems"
Cognition - "difficulty regulating attention, problems with a variety of "executive functions" such as planning, judgement, initiation, use of materials, and self- monitoring, difficulty processing new information, difficulty focusing and completing tasks, poor object constancy, problems with "cause-effect" thinking, and language developmental problems such as a gap between receptive and expressive communication abilities."
Self-concept -"fragmented and disconnected autobiographical narrative, disturbed body image, low self-esteem, excessive shame, and negative internal working models of self"
Attachment - "problems with relationship boundaries, lack of trust, social isolation, difficulty perceiving and responding to other’s emotional states, and lack of empathy"
Biology - "sensory-motor developmental dysfunction, sensory-integration difficulties, somatization, and increased medical problems"
Affect or emotional regulation - "poor affect regulation, difficulty identifying and expressing emotions and internal states, and difficulties communicating needs, wants, and wishes"
Dissociation - "amnesia, depersonalization, discrete states of consciousness with discrete memories, affect, and functioning, and impaired memory for state-based events"
Behavioural control - "problems with impulse control, aggression, pathological self-soothing, and sleep problems"
Cognition - "difficulty regulating attention, problems with a variety of "executive functions" such as planning, judgement, initiation, use of materials, and self- monitoring, difficulty processing new information, difficulty focusing and completing tasks, poor object constancy, problems with "cause-effect" thinking, and language developmental problems such as a gap between receptive and expressive communication abilities."
Self-concept -"fragmented and disconnected autobiographical narrative, disturbed body image, low self-esteem, excessive shame, and negative internal working models of self"
It seems the idea is that those are the effects of chronic, inescapable stress (and trauma). It seems like this could fit with the OP's idea of being stuck in "survival mode," due to a hostile (sensory, socially, executive-funtcionally, etc.) world. Again, probably not as extreme as actual C-PTSD, but the symptoms above are interesting.
Random thing: while googling, I ran across this, which cat people might find interesing: Cats as a Treatment for Post Traumatic Stress
Another random thing: just had an interesting/amusing thought -- a fetus in the womb, stimming. Has stimming ever been shown to happen in the womb? -- like on an ultrasound scan, or any mothers ever report feeling it?
Another amusing image: fetus in the womb stimming, with a caption that says, "caused by refrigerator mother, my a**"
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
aghogday wrote:
When you speak of taking energy out of reserves to do the small things for survival that is the flight or fight response; while not taxing or considered stressful to most people it is a matter of survival to you. It's not to say that the fight or fight response has to be evoked by what is normally considered to be a real danger, the energy you dip into are the stress hormones adrenaline and cortisol (that is the physiological fight or flight response; it is a hormonal response required for extra energy).
No. It's not necessarily the fight-flight response. I have PTSD. I know what the fight-flight response feels like. Dipping into that extra energy does not even remotely feel like the fight-flight response unless it's in some really particular situations that I am deliberately not describing. It feels more like just drawing from something deeper than I normally have. It's a totally different feeling. You can try to redefine the fight-flight response, but it doesn't apply to the things I'm describing. Or doesn't have to apply. That's why I went to the trouble of describing it. You can even draw on those stress hormones without the fight-flight response. I know this sounds like I'm quibbling over tiny details but it feels like you're redefining everything I'm saying so that it fits your view of the world even though I'm pretty certain it doesn't, or doesn't wholly.
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anbuend wrote:
No. It's not necessarily the fight-flight response. I have PTSD. I know what the fight-flight response feels like. Dipping into that extra energy does not even remotely feel like the fight-flight response unless it's in some really particular situations that I am deliberately not describing. It feels more like just drawing from something deeper than I normally have. It's a totally different feeling. You can try to redefine the fight-flight response, but it doesn't apply to the things I'm describing. Or doesn't have to apply. That's why I went to the trouble of describing it. You can even draw on those stress hormones without the fight-flight response. I know this sounds like I'm quibbling over tiny details but it feels like you're redefining everything I'm saying so that it fits your view of the world even though I'm pretty certain it doesn't, or doesn't wholly.
I agree with this. I have PTSD as well, and the fight or flight response is totally different from just dipping into extra energy.
I spent a good part of 2001-2003 drawing on that extra energy, to the tune of three separate burnouts. If it was like the fight or flight response, I probably would have sought medical help (like I did when my panic attacks started during the third burnout) rather than keep pushing. I didn't feel trapped when I committed to too much work. Not until I ran out of energy and let everything drop at once.
anbuend wrote:
aghogday wrote:
When you speak of taking energy out of reserves to do the small things for survival that is the flight or fight response; while not taxing or considered stressful to most people it is a matter of survival to you. It's not to say that the fight or fight response has to be evoked by what is normally considered to be a real danger, the energy you dip into are the stress hormones adrenaline and cortisol (that is the physiological fight or flight response; it is a hormonal response required for extra energy).
No. It's not necessarily the fight-flight response. I have PTSD. I know what the fight-flight response feels like. Dipping into that extra energy does not even remotely feel like the fight-flight response unless it's in some really particular situations that I am deliberately not describing. It feels more like just drawing from something deeper than I normally have. It's a totally different feeling. You can try to redefine the fight-flight response, but it doesn't apply to the things I'm describing. Or doesn't have to apply. That's why I went to the trouble of describing it. You can even draw on those stress hormones without the fight-flight response. I know this sounds like I'm quibbling over tiny details but it feels like you're redefining everything I'm saying so that it fits your view of the world even though I'm pretty certain it doesn't, or doesn't wholly.
Sorry, the fight or flight response is not a good term. Adrenal response may be a better term. I think when a person dips into emergency reserves they are dipping into adrenaline that they normally do not use. The response can vary from slight to extreme depending on the task or situation.
When a person has to dip into emergency reserves, often, for everyday tasks, it can take a toll on a person's mental and physical health, in part, because of excess stress chemicals. It can be particularly hard for Autistic people because the things most people consider small may require a larger effort.
On the other hand when a person is hyposensitive and has problems concentrating to do small things, they may seek stimulation and adrenaline to be able to focus better. I have lived it from this perspective and the burn-out perspective.
The stimulation and adrenaline from the hyposensitive scenario feels good and is effective in increasing focus. I used intense exercise for this purpose. From my perspective, in the burn-out or long term surival mode scenario, the stimulation and adrenaline do not seem like a positive stressor and focus is even harder.
There is a whole spectrum that goes from extremely hyposensitive to extremely hypersensitive, so the subjective feeling of stress, adrenal response, or fight or flight response is hard to define. Most people do not consider an exciting positive experience as a stressor, but it is because of the chemicals released in the body. It is easier to understand when a person is close to the stage of exhaustion.