The AS checklist - Do I really have it? (warning:a bit long)

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Yagaloth, hi!

this is a keeper! I agree with/experience all you say in your post to one degree or other. You put it all superlatively well. Thank you. But this 'no-empathy' business is something that REALLY p*sses me off. At a party the other week, some know-all NT told the assembled crowd that 'of course, Aspergers people can only feel anger, happy, sad, fear.' I empathise in shedloads. I angst for days about not hurting people. I spend weeks perseverating on the best way to respond in the kindest way. It's just that when I try and talk with the NT who wants my support/attention/empathy in my own - very caring - way, they always take it the wrong way or I've clearly not said the right thing. I DO wish THEY'D get out of THEIR tiny mindsets and yappy 'I-want-NOW-NOW-NOW!' mindblindness and see that I AM able to listen and give excellent support/empathy etc. (Well, to be honest, a few of my friends actually DO appreciate this in me, but for the most part...)

Thank you.

I probably sound rather bitter about it all, and maybe I am, a little. I hope that I don't run rough-shod over anyone's feelings like that. It's just that, since "discovering" Asperger's a couple months ago, I've got about 30 years of bottled-up frustration at some of this nonsense to get off my chest right now. Eventually, I'll calm down a bit and start being just a tiny bit more fair about things.

But, until then, I'm going to be in full-speed bull-in-a-china-shop mode as I try to shake out of all the wrong assumptions I've been living with my entire life and try a new perspective on for a change.

Honest: I'm not really as grouchy as I probably sound!

In any case, it's a tremendous relief to be able to say some of the sorts of things I've been thinking my entire life, and actually have human beings saying they actually make sense! I thought I was the only one in the world, or that I was schizophrenic or something. And, more than that, it's a relief to see so many sane human beings writing things that look so eerily like things I've felt or experienced... I've never met any of you before, but most of you already knew me better, before I ever wrote my first message here, than people who have known me in person for up to 20 years or longer!

dude we are inthe same boat, i have had revcently accepted my diagnosis 3 months ago and i have 34 years of habits to break........and i am changing and it is nice to know that i am not a bad person and that i am austistic.

AS is on a spectrum. You don't need to fit all of the criteria, but something like a little over half. There are like ten things that tend to define the criteria. It's just not well understood yet. It would be really nice if some doc could hook us up to an EEG or fMRI and say, "You have aspergers" based on different brain patterns. These sorts of studies are yet far from conclusive.

- Ray M -

In almost everything I have ever read about Asperger's they mention two things which I don't THINK I experience..
One is truly wanting to have friends and fit in socially. Whereas a classic autistic prefers being alone. I personally, have no problems with, and prefer to be alone.
Second is needing to stick to a rigid routine. I am in some ways spontaneous. There are some things I prefer to do the same way everytime, but if I can't do them that way I don't think I'm going to have a meltdown. There are some odd things I do the same way everytime, Like eat a sandwich, or groom my horse, or eat candy in a certain order. I am weird.. but anyways, I was wondering about other Aspies in these areas..

EventingRoze

Well, I do want to be liked, respected, and accepted. I guess in that way I do want to "fit in socially." But I would rather do that on my own terms, by my own rules. Furthermore, I'd easily rather be alone than in a bad social situation, and solitude is absolutely necessary for me after I've over-loaded on socializing.

I don't particularly like rigid routines or literal schedules (my father tried for years to get me to carefully schedule everything, and I resisted the effort in no small part simply because I didn't think it felt very natural for me.) I actually enjoy trying to do things in new ways, especially if I can afford the luxury of time and material to waste on new ways that don't work out... having someone tell me that there is "only one way to do it" is something I take as a personal challenge to find at least one other way to do it.




I have to wonder if the problem with a description of Asperger's that doesn't really seem to fit right (i.e. "wanting to fit in socially", or the infamous "lack of empathy"), is mostly a problem of trying to find the right words for it, and failing? We're dealing in many cases with definitions written by someone on the outside of an AS or autistic mind, looking in, and trying to describe what little can be seen in the only way available... the results should be more likely to be inaccurate than perfect.

Again, Yagaloth, nail on the head! I think we should get together and rewrite the DSM IV etc from an ASp's perspective. When I first read the diagnostic criteria I certainly didn't see myself there.

No wonder so many 'experts' misdiagnose or refuse to diagnose our kindred when they stick so - uh - literally to those 'outside-looking-in' descriptors.

No wonder NTs get a really skewed idea of what spectrum folks experience. I mean, for example, look at the BBC's recent documentary : 'The Woman who thought she was a Cow' - jeez.

Temple Grandin DOES NOT think she's a cow, she's a highly accomplished, highly respected academic who has practically contributed much to the better understanding and treatment of both farmed animals and autistics. [rant]

Like you and donkey, I'm also finally realising that all the difficulties and differences are just how I am, and endeavouring to dump many decades of guilt for all my 'failures' to measure up to the norms and values of this very wrong planet and all those virtually impossible aspirations it dumped on me.

Yep, we need to rant! Let it all out! The more I realise what a duplicitous straightjacket the NT world is, the more I appreciate my Planet Aspie nationality and passport!

Yep, it's truly wonderful to be amongst folk who actually DO understand me, who operate in basically the same ways (honesty, straightforwardness etc) and who thoroughly understand the sensory stuff and need to unhook from the wall-to-wall people thing that NTs do.

I'm very glad you're all here!

You sound like an Aspie, becuase those are Aspie traits.

Wow, a lot of those traits you describe are very similar to me. I am not sure if I have AS or not, though if I look deeper into the reasons why I do things... it eventually reveals itself as being AS.

For example, you mention being really concerned about how not being rude to other people. I do this, all the time, I am always thinking if what I am doing is offensive. I have enough sense to know that some people expect certain things from me. If I know these things, I try to accommodate and concern myself with not annoying someone else.

I have now thought of an explaination as to why I do this. When I was younger, I used to do anything it didn't matter if people were annoyed by it or not. I eventually got made fun of by my family I did stuff with, my uncles and cousins... who were more like brothers to me. I eventually made a consious effort, to always think before I said anything... don't say anything that someone would find annoying, don't do anything unless you are going to contribute to the conversation/activity. So now my focus was on thinking about what was the appropriate thing to do. Now I am older and this has led me to being overly concerned about what to do, to the point of anxiety. Since I don't always know specifically what I need to do, since I don't pick up on what people expect all the time. And when some people have one standard, and others have another... I get confused. But in general, I am able to use my thinking to help me socially... it just takes some time.

I'll post about other similarities too. I think there are quite a couple different... AS archetypes that can be used to describe them in general. Different traits of varying degrees will manifest itself in unique ways... that on the surface may not be all too similar.

Oh wow, thank you very much! Yeah, people have told me this too, and, I think if I look into it more I could make a viable career path out of it - such as writing articles or reviews on videogames. But, I guess I never really considered that my writing was all that good, because if it was, wouldn't I have better control over how long my posts become? Wouldn't I be able to explain my point in a smaller more accessible format? Wouldn't I learn how to SHUT UP? lol I don't think I ramble on, but I don't know how great and how useful my writing really is to anyone if they don't have the patience to read it. I wish I knew how to control this >.<

I also have a talent of drawing, however, its not where I want it to be at. I feel overwhelmed about it because it seems like my talent is QUITE limited and that I have alot to learn still, and I don't know if I DO want to learn it. Ofcourse the reason why I don't enjoy drawing that much and why I get frustrated, is also BECAUSE I'm not as good as I've seen others be, I'm not where I want to be at it, yet at the same time, can't be bothered to get any better so I don't know what to do about all that. My Dad has a little bit TOO much faith in my artistic ability, seriously, because I know while I'm pretty good, I'm not THAT amazing. He thinks I should go talk to Dreamworks and try and get hired, and he doesn't understand all thats required to get into a career like that - you better be an artist on all sorts of levels, a storyboarder, a 3D modeller, and all this, and really, my stuff is almost doodling compared to how good you have to be. I don't want to go in there and embarrass myself, because I know I don't have what it takes! What he sees in my art is probably just a case of 'Daddy's little angel' in that ofcourse he thinks what I create is better than anyone else on the planet, but that doesn't mean the industry is going to agree with him.

But anyway, thats going off topic. But thank you so much for your compliment!





Yeah I know exactly what you mean.

Well in the first way, I fit in with the first thing, but it depends on the situation. I greatly desire to have some good friends in person and be able to socialise and fit into society, but as Yagaloth says, on my own terms. I want to be myself and just be liked and appreciated and respected for being ME and I will ofcourse treat my friends the same way. I know I have some great friends on the internet, but they are all so 'world wide' that I can't physically hang out with any of them unless one of us made a trip to the others' country. Even still, I like being a loner too, I like to spend time alone and feel like no one has to depend on me for anything, so its stress free. It's just REALLY lonely sometimes. I guess I want to find some good balance.

I don't have a real schedule or routine either, but I think I function BETTER when I have one. When I just have a 'whatever' lifestyle, I don't care about anything and nothing ever gets done and I don't feel good about myself. A routine might help me function better, but its still OPTIONAL - I wouldn't freak out if other plans come along. The only problem comes from when a new idea interferes with something I already planned on doing, I don't like it. I really don't like it when my Dad pulls these last minute ideas out and he expects me to co operate when I had so little warning to prepare.




Yeah I totally agree here too. I have matured and adapted as far as knowing what to say and do in social situations, but it has almost went in the OPPOSITE way of when I was a kid. Now my brain is CONSTANTLY thinking, worrying, and trying to decipher every new situation, and I just get really nervous and in the end, usually don't act at it. It depends on the scenerio. But in general, I would say that right now, NO ONE will truely get to know the real me if we talk in person. There is alot I won't say, won't talk about. I just don't feel safe to truely be myself out there. I feel like I have to constantly hide it, in order to be acceptible in society. Speak when I'm spoken to, and I only answer questions specifically to the limit in which the person asked me. If they want me to elaborate, they will have to be SPECIFIC. Not because I don't realise they want to know more, but because I don't feel safe to say too much.

AS traits for me. The Obsessions that tend towards the hobbies and general interests... but to the extreme side. Any band, tv show, video game, movie... any media really... I'll research and research till I have way more than standard fan knowledge. But I don't have any very different obsessions... like is described in many explainations of AS. Mine are more like standard interests... taken to a non-standard level.

Being socially strange is of course the big tip off to having AS for me. But my strangeness tends to a reserved slight ignorance of the prevailing social norms. Combined with a very clumsy and unconventional speaking style, that rarely convies what I really want people to know. I also don't have much empathy, or at least the external empathy that people expect.

I am pretty clumsy. I can get sort of good at somethings, but it requires much practice... and even more mental preparation and analysis before I can get decent. Any impromptu physical activity I am going to have problems. I also have general problems with judging distances and speed... and doing anything in a mirror is nearly impossible.

Talking strangely... I don't notice that I have strange speech. But some people tell me I do. I used to have a more pronounced lisp. And some words just aren't ever pronounced properly by me.

Not being able to multitask... this is huge for me. I can rarely do multiple things at once. I can't keep track of two activites at the same time. My memory is horrible to begin with, having to jungle two or more different tasks will just lead to a brain freeze of epicness that I never recover from.. The worst is talking on the phone, I need absolutely no distractions if I am talking on the phone and need to get something done. I've had situations where I am talking with someone on the phone, and then someone else is talking to me telling me what I should tell the person on the phone. I need to be courtious to the person on the phone, and deal with his problem and answer questions... but then the other person is demanding that I talk about something else specifically. Ugh, these situations I just can't win.... its easy to forget that I may have AS... but not when this happens.

Social memory... haven't heard that term before. But it describes completely what I lack. I just can't remember peoples names, addresses, phone numbers, dates of events, everything really. I am a bit lucky since it isn't expected of me to remember this sort of thing. but its annoying that I have to deal with this.

I am good at Math though. Especially Math that has a visual component. I am slightly above average at basic arithmetic and memorizing of equations and such. But when I have a chance to delve deep into the real understanding of something mathematical, my understanding nearly becomes a part of me. It really took taking a calculus course for this ability to shine, but once it did I knew where my talents are. This ability helps in computer science and physics and such... but not as completely as it does in Math. Though in english and other subjects I am a complete fool, so its all ballanced.

I don't have anger problems either. I am extremely mellow, to the point of not really being concerned about much. I have to deal with annoying coworkers, and while some of the antics I have to put up with would send most people into a rage... I just deal with it and let it pass. Since I really don't know how to stop it, and I can manage well enough. I just don't feel very strong emotions. Its not that I don't feel anything, but I don't feel strong enough to get me into action.

I've read somewhere that the instinct part of acting, the real fast reaction is all based on emotion. Since your brain doesn't have time to think fast. My very laid back nature, and lack of desire to confort things... and shake things up... is a direct result of my low emotions.

I was suprised by reading your post, since many things were similar. The more I think about, the more I think I have AS. Just that I don't have the extreme emotions that some with AS have, and I am able to compinsate socially just with experience and thinking. When ever I am in a new situation, I suddenly feel all the problems that I know have to be caused by AS. Its easy to get comfortable in my day to day stuff to think that I am not that differant than NTs. But put me on a crowded Bus, trying to talk on a cell phone and understand all the social cues being passed between all the folks, and I know exactly what AS is.

Well thats my version of a long winded post....

Pugly, this is exactly what I was thinking just the other day. When I'm on my own and comfortable - the only times I ever really feel a hundred percent relaxed and at ease is when I'm alone - I start to doubt my suspicions and think, "Is there really anything wrong? Am I just being some kind of hypochondriac?" It's only when I'm around other 'normal' people again that I really realise how 'not normal' I am.

yes guys you have hit on soemthing very improtant for aspies, when we are alone, we can contrl the amount of light, noise what w e eat and hear and see...we can control conversation and ignore the phone we can enjou our favuorite tv shows and be normal...being aspie is all about having alone time to decompress to prepare for facing the real world..aspeis like to be in control not for power but to feel safe we are too easily overwhlemed by little things to not want control.

i must admit i couldn't be bothered to read everyone's posts.

how can you discern whether you have it without going to see a doctor?

i have a feeling that if i did post everything why i suspect i have as on here, you might be more inclined to say i have it because this is an as forum....

I can't speak for everyone else here, but I do know that in my case, I've always been considered "strange" by everyone else, in spite of every effort I've ever made to fit in. Nobody has ever been able to tell me precisely WHY I don't fit in (beyond the occassional and vastly un-helpful "you never think about anyone but yourself", "it's like there's nobody home in there", "you're always off in your own little world", "you seem like a nice guy, but... *shrug*", "you talk/walk/look funny", and my favorite, "maybe the thought never occurred to you, but you really scare people."

So, for me, this thread isn't about going through a checklist and saying "yep, I've got it, alright!"

But, rather, it's about going through and saying "yeah, I do that, I never thought of it before, but I do it, or something very close to it!" - over, and over, and over. Doing that, and realizing that it's not just one thing I could do to suddenly not scare people or stop "being weird"... instead, there's a whole list of characteristics that really make me stand out like a sore thumb to everyone else that I've just never noticed before. And, whatever some doctor might say , that list of characteristics seems to be pretty much standard for AS. (And I have a feeling that most doctors familiar with AS and autism, given a chance to talk to my parents and spend some time with me, would agree with my conclusion that I act and think like a perfectly normal aspie/Person With Asperger's.)

This thread is priceless to me for no other reason than for the fact that, for the first time in my life, I can relax and talk comfortably and honestly about things which have isolated me my entire life... things which come naturally and unconsciously to me, but which scream loud and clear to everyone else "hey, he's really weird!"


In short, I'm not here for a diagnosis, I'm here because this has been the only place I've ever seen where people can actually talk clearly, naturally, and honestly about what is weird about me from their own first-hand experience, because it happens to be at least very close to what's been going on with them.


How can I discern it by myself? I'm not sure anyone ever could. But that's beside the point: for the first time in my life, I'm among a group of people where I can write the way I think and at least occassionally get a response of "that's it, EXACTLY! And furthermore..." followed by several paragraphs of things that make perfect sense. For whatever reason (possibly because I am an aspie?), people with AS seem to be among the few people who I can actually communicate directly with.





But, you could try this experiment: go to a different forum and post the same list of things that are "weird" about you (or, at least, one of the suspected aspie's above) there, with no mention of AS or autism, and see if, say, a forum for alcoholics or drug addicts or neurotics or suicidal teens or console gamers or Star Trek fans or whatever will result in the bulk of the people there saying "you are describing me perfectly!", and adding a couple MORE odd things that you never noticed before but describe you even more perfectly than you could describe yourself. Chances are, you will probably get a response from one, maybe even two or three, other people who might say something like that, but I think most other people would reply only with "dude u need 2 get some seerreus help!! !!1!!"




(And, to be honest, I didn't expect anyone to read everything I wrote, and, in fact, I didn't read everything everyone else wrote, either - I didn't have to. I'd skim through, and no matter where I stopped, I would say to myself "wow, that sounds strange... but I do it, too!", "I know exactly where he/she's going to with that... yeah, that's it exactly", or feel that little lightbulb go on and think "I'd never realized/noticed that before!" There's a lot there that I didn't have to read, because it could have been written by me!)