Context-Driven Associative Memory

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Yeah, before I really thought it through it weirded me out that I could have a huge vocabulary and yet have so much trouble producing elements of it on demand.

Also Godzilla.

Godzilla's real, right? /special interest

This is definitely not what most NTs are like. I completely flunk memory tests that NTs pass this way. By which I mean, the memory tests are graded in a manner where average is 100 and the rest of the scoring is just like an IQ test. I always get under 70. That would be very hard for an NT to do, just as it would be hard for them to score that low on an IQ test.

On the other hand, my recall for things that are triggered by something is probably above average in terms of detail.

But ask me what I ate for breakfast and I likely can't tell you even though I eat the same thing every single day. Most NTs can tell you that. This is a serious memory impairment, not "everyone is like that and you just don't know it". If everyone were like this I would by definition score 100 on memory tests. Since 100 is by definition average. Below 70 is seriously deficient. The memory tests involve memorizing things with no relation to each other then being asked to show or repeat which ones were there at intervals later. If everyone's memory were like this everyone would flunk that test.

Anyway, to me this is only one facet of a much larger problem. As in, the core of the problem is rarely the memory itself, it's something else that seems to affect several different areas of skill at once. It's just that people usually get caught up in categorizing them each separately, sometimes even using terms that may not be accurate like executive dysfunction for instance (which people use as if it means all trouble getting anything done, but its meaning is more specific).

So the thing that seems to be at the core of this:

"If something triggers ________, I can do it, possibly very well. If something does not trigger ________, I can't do it or do it very badly.". Where _________ is the same thing for both.

For me this affects just about every area of my life: Memory, movement, complex actions, thoughts, language, literally everything. It's one of the central impairments associated with autism for me. It doesn't only affect initiating things, either. It goes with that chart I'm always referencing:

Marked difficulties in: {Starting, stopping, executing, continuing, combining, switching}, may impede: {postures, actions, speech, thoughts, perceptions, emotions, memories}.

(For more information: http://www.iirc.indiana.edu/?pageId=468 )

So as far as I can tell it's just one piece of a larger pattern and very few people are affected in only one area. (This can explain many many aspects of autism. Not all but many.)

Thank you, this helps a lot - I'll probably be processing this for a bit (no idea how long) but hopefully it'll help me figure more of this stuff out.

Fair point on the use of executive dysfunction, although I don't know a better word to describe difficulties in prioritizing and managing cognitive resources. But it does have a narrower meaning than that.

I recently took a two-part (executive function and verbal memory) test. My verbal memory was so low I don't even know how to explain it. It wasn't an artifact of latency to the test site, as other people were able to easily score in the typical range. Even before that, I found I had more trouble than is reasonable with transcription. Like I can only remember a few words at a time, and sometimes I have to listen multiple times - there are times when I have 3-4 words in memory and lose 1-2 of them while switching over to type them out. I wonder if this relates. I actually do better on digit span tests (get about average - six digits).

I have that trouble with meals, although I can usually remember breakfast, sometimes, but not like the day before. I just tried to remember what I had for dinner last night and only just remembered because the container of barbecue pork is sitting right in front of me (barbecue pork, pork fried rice, sweet and sour chicken). If I wasn't eating it for breakfast today, I'd still be wondering if it had been pork chops.

But this list:

Yes, I do have some of this going on. Definitely enough to be problem.

Also, that link doesn't work or qwest is refusing to let me see it.

Here's the link again:

http://www.iidc.indiana.edu/?pageId=468


This time it's pasted rather than transcribed. If that doesn't work it means their server is down. Keep trying every few hours or however often you can, possibly over a few days. Their server does that. Or you could search "Movement difference: A closer look at the possibilities" and read the Google cache. May be on Internet archive too. Also there's a great book called Movement Differences and Diversity in Autism/Mental Retardation. That's where that page got its info from and it goes into much more depth including some highly detailed information on catatonia (which is a highly complex neurological disorder, not just freezing in place for emotional/psychiatric reasons -- think Awakenings) and other things autism can resemble in some ways.

I have odd results on these types of tests. My digit span is average in an explicit test, but below average in a reverse digit span, and remembering digits when I have to DO something with them is bad. I can remember a phone number until I actually have to use it, then I will often forget it and have to look at it again. So the task of remembering a specific string of symbols isn't so hard, but processing those symbols into meaning and action isn't always fluid.

I remember a word memory test that I started out doing terribly with. But as soon as I stopped trying to recall the words and I started trying to recall the images of the words, I did much better. Of course at that point I was remembering pictures, not words. This would not work in trying to remember a stream of spoken words.

The second link works, thanks again. A lot to digest - I've read it before, but I didn't really connect it to anything. Your explanation in this thread with that article though, makes me wonder.

I have to think about this.

Well, you said for you that "in most conversations this isn't relevant", but I meant for me that very often it is relevant.

I identify greatly with the thing about trying to recall animals whose names start with "g". I am horrible at anything like that. For example, if I try to remember all 5 of my dad's siblings, I usually can't recall one or two, even though I know them all very well.

About your difficulty with video games with different controls, for me that usually isn't a problem, since I'm quite good at figuring things out and solving problems on my own.

I read the whole page of from the Indiana site, and I can say that all of those movement differences affect me, some severely and some moderately. I had never heard of those "movement differences" before, that was a great article.

They didn't always give the best examples in that. I like the book a lot better but that requires actually ordering it. Someone borrowed mine and never returned it

Database is always relevant. What I meant was most of my conversations tend to be about my special interests, and I have an easier time with prompts in those categories. Sorry. Even then I still have issues - I mean autism is my special interest right now but talking about certain elements of my own autistic stuff is still somewhat difficult (but easier than say in December) because I have to separate it out as autistic even though to me it's normal. But once I do it's easier to look at it that way. I hope that made sense.



I can't usually remember my stepsisters' names. I rely on other people to remind me without actually being obvious that I need the reminder. I'm terrible about names in general. I do remember one stepsister pretty reliably and I can at least pull up some of the other names, but not assign them to people.



The vast majority of games use similar control schemes (across game type, anyway), or give you leeway to define it. I don't mean controls. I mean underlying design philosophy. Sins uses the same kinds of controls as any RTS but the whole thing feels alien to me. I haven't been able to connect to the game very easily.



Yeah, it's doable from Amazon for $26.84 on up (from used sellers). Not sure I can get it before next month.

Non-returning book borrowers are annoying. They're not really borrowers anymore, either.



I used to do really well with phone numbers. I'd memorize them all and use them as needed. Nowadays I haven't memorized more than my home phone and mobile #. I say this having forgotten my home phone number upon being asked for it several times recently. I also have a tendency to lose my zip code, even though I know the entire address by rote.

I tend to have a good memory for numbers, possibly related to the fact I can still do mental arithmetic.



The test I'm thinking of had words written out, so I could have tried images, but I was trying to stick to the point of the test, which was to test verbal memory.

Last edited by Verdandi on 15 Feb 2011, 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My memory is inconsistent. I have a great deal of difficulties bringing up random memories, and recalling things is slow. Associations help a lot. If I have the right associations, I can bring up quite a bit of information, but until I can get a handle on things, I have a great deal of difficulty. The things that I do best at are things that have a logic to them, some sort of pattern. What I am worst at is sheer brute force memorization.

I can memorize long mathematical proofs, but have a great deal of trouble remembering simple formulas, phone numbers, names, and faces.

I can remember enormous amounts of detail about projects that I have worked on, but when asked, I could not remember what rides I enjoyed on my last trip to Walt Disney World, nor could I remember my favorite musicals.

It is just so frustrating to me. Once I can get started, one item brings up another, which brings up another, but it is such a slow process.

Very interesting topic. I would add "gavial" to the g-list. Many-many similarities to my mind, phenomena that formerly I could not explain why just me. Thanks.

One thing I should mention. When I try to remember something, usually the first clue that flashes up is the first character of the word sought for. Then I'm where the question with animal names beginning with "g". It may help that I go through the ABC, but the first character is always easier to find than the others.

"Stick gear": I always drive manual, and when I drop in an automatic sometimes, I'm having a hard time not to step on the brake with my left leg handling the clutch, which would be Dead Stop right away... lol

I find these threads hard to read, but I've read a good chunk. My memory seems to be a bit like yours Verdandi.

I tried to describe something about my memory once... it's like most of my memories are locked up in some kind of part of my brain that I can't usually consciously access... I need to have something to trigger stuff in there, and let it out, one at a time. I don't know if this is how everyone's memory works.

Last edited by Moog on 01 Mar 2011, 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

It does sound like a AS trait for most of us and I for one am going to be thinking of how to build triggers by myself to make remembering the wealth of knowledge in my skull easier to access.

I've been trying to think of how this whole strict context thing applies to other things - I mean stuff like Anbuend's link earlier in the thread. I tend to ignore/not process stuff that doesn't seem relevant to what I'm doing, which means I might ignore kitchen clutter as if it doesn't exist while I'm trying to make something to eat, because it's outside the context of making food unless it's in my way.

I've been having trouble working out a way to talk about it, though, so I'm not able to get it out as fully as I'd like. I'll have to think more. Executive function describes some of my behavior and perceptions, but the link Anbuend gave seems to hint at things more in line with how my brain works, if that makes sense, and it seems like a lot more can fall into place coming at it from that direction than thinking about an inability to plan for the future, a lack of emotional regulation, and so on.