This makes me an awful person, and I'm trying to analyze why

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jagatai
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21 Apr 2011, 3:14 pm

draelynn wrote:
I think the bottom line may be - it wasn't fair.

He had the looks, the schooling, the opportunity, probably amazing connections - everything seemingly came easy for him. That's not fair to the rest of us. It's only natural to question why was he better and natural to thank whatever stars you beleive in that he burned up his karma - his free ride wasn't fair but at least it was thankfully short. This is exactly the sort of human condition that Buddhist work so hard to eliminate from their lives - the addiction to the material. Success, money, acclaim, beauty... it doesn't make you wrong. It makes you human.

The fact that you can question it is already worlds more enlightened than most of the planet.

You didn't mention whether or not you believed he was actually talented.


Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Are you suggesting that because Tim Hetherington had some advantages (connections, looks, talent etc) that it was fair that he died? Have you established that he actually had those advantages? Should people who have these advantages be killed? You refer to his connections as "probably amazing connections" which suggests you have no idea what his connections were and are just assuming things in support of an already weak argument.

You are making an assumption that he didn't work hard for his success. You state that he had a "free ride" How do you know this? What exactly do you mean by a free ride? Are you claiming that Tim Hetherington did not have to learn to take a good photograph and how to tell a good story?

You say "it's not fair to the rest of us" as if "the rest of us" should get the same rewards even if we have not taken the risks and done the work that the film maker did.

Frankly I find your [draelynn's] attitude disgusting and immature. I understand and sympathize with brianruns10's emotions and appreciate the fact that he understands the conflicted nature of his reaction. But draelynn needs to re-examine her attitude to fairness and her assumption that a person who SEEMS to have easy success should have a "thankfully short" life.

Sorry if I seem a little angry here, but frankly I'm a little angry with this attitude.


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chinatown
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21 Apr 2011, 3:34 pm

Very good points there. I have nothing to add except I don't see why are happy about his death when it was pretty much a martyr death. If it was autoerotic asphyxiation, I'd get it. Well, not that it would invalidate his accomplishments, at least not in my eyes, but it would certainly not make him a martyr.


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draelynn
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21 Apr 2011, 4:14 pm

jagatai wrote:
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Are you suggesting that because Tim Hetherington had some advantages (connections, looks, talent etc) that it was fair that he died? Have you established that he actually had those advantages? Should people who have these advantages be killed? You refer to his connections as "probably amazing connections" which suggests you have no idea what his connections were and are just assuming things in support of an already weak argument.

You are making an assumption that he didn't work hard for his success. You state that he had a "free ride" How do you know this? What exactly do you mean by a free ride? Are you claiming that Tim Hetherington did not have to learn to take a good photograph and how to tell a good story?

You say "it's not fair to the rest of us" as if "the rest of us" should get the same rewards even if we have not taken the risks and done the work that the film maker did.

Frankly I find your [draelynn's] attitude disgusting and immature. I understand and sympathize with brianruns10's emotions and appreciate the fact that he understands the conflicted nature of his reaction. But draelynn needs to re-examine her attitude to fairness and her assumption that a person who SEEMS to have easy success should have a "thankfully short" life.

Sorry if I seem a little angry here, but frankly I'm a little angry with this attitude.


Woah... back up there chief. I'd be glad to explain if you feel you have misunderstood my point but judging by the bottom of your statement I'm not sure I should bother.

My disgusting and immature attitude are in question here.

Frankly, I completely agree that you are welcomed to your anger. I hope you realize that you passed that judgement without waiting for the clarification you originally opened this post with. Yes, you did misunderstand me. Completely. I may have expressed myself unclearly. Thank you for the benefit of your doubt.

And I am entirely unmotivated to engage in a conversation about it because you have already displayed a level of aggression I am not inclined to entertain.



jagatai
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21 Apr 2011, 4:18 pm

How did I misunderstand?


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draelynn
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21 Apr 2011, 4:21 pm

Are you capable of discussing this without the judgements and name calling and actually listening to what I have to say?



jagatai
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21 Apr 2011, 4:33 pm

Of course. I really do want to understand and if I misunderstood, I figure you ought to have the opportunity to clarify.


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draelynn
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21 Apr 2011, 5:01 pm

Okay then... I'm gonna hold you to that...

In response to your first question;

Are you suggesting that because Tim Hetherington had some advantages (connections, looks, talent etc) that it was fair that he died?


No, that is not what I am suggesting at all. I was trying to frame my response to the OP's post from his perspective. He was feeling bad for having these negative thoughts. I was suggesting the reasons that people, in general, may also share his negative thoughts. I was not passing judgement or making commentary on the filmmaker in any way shape or form.

My apologies for using a broad generalization. This is a habit of mine that I realize is extremely inflammitory here. and since this is a new revelation for me, I am trying - still unsuccessfully - to reframe my thoughts into something without them. I'm finding that challenge to be extremely daunting to the point where I can't even form an opinion without doing it. My thought process is all about context... while I can focus like a laser on the details, I can also see a broad picture so vast that I routinely lose people as I switch from one to the other or just simply start so far out there that people can't see the connection. So - I have communication difficulties. Enough said on that.

I used the word seemingly quite deliberately. It was to imply a falsehood. Something that looks one way on the surface but may not be what it appears. To see that you interpreted that as SEEMS is telling. That small change of the word also changed its meaning. If I had used SEEMS it would have implied some sort of opinion of the man in question personally. This was not intended. This is why I asked at the end of the post what the OP thought of the filmmakers talent. I find it interesting that he did not voice his opinion of it in the original post. I am thinking that he actually found this filmmaker quite talented, therefore adding a possible layer of jealousy to these negative feelings he's experiencing. I could be wrong though - that's why I asked first.

I was simply pointing out that human nature is not always rosy, or pretty or correct. But it is innately human. As is the OP... and a more fully evolved human at that for questioning himself so honestly. It took quite a bit of courage to post this. I admire it.

In closing this rant - I DO NOT think ANYONE deserves death. Anyone. And certainly not a filmmaker for simply doing what he does best or for the possiblity that he may or may not have had an easy time of his career. Everyone is dealt a different hand in life - perhaps he just pulled a royal flush. I do not know anything about this filmmaker or his circumstances in life and it was not my intent to imply that I did. Again - the text you took so much offense to was taken out of the context I intended it in.

Can I have my maturity back now?



jagatai
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21 Apr 2011, 5:29 pm

draelynn wrote:
Okay then... I'm gonna hold you to that...

In response to your first question;

Are you suggesting that because Tim Hetherington had some advantages (connections, looks, talent etc) that it was fair that he died?


No, that is not what I am suggesting at all. I was trying to frame my response to the OP's post from his perspective. He was feeling bad for having these negative thoughts. I was suggesting the reasons that people, in general, may also share his negative thoughts. I was not passing judgement or making commentary on the filmmaker in any way shape or form.

My apologies for using a broad generalization. This is a habit of mine that I realize is extremely inflammitory here. and since this is a new revelation for me, I am trying - still unsuccessfully - to reframe my thoughts into something without them. I'm finding that challenge to be extremely daunting to the point where I can't even form an opinion without doing it. My thought process is all about context... while I can focus like a laser on the details, I can also see a broad picture so vast that I routinely lose people as I switch from one to the other or just simply start so far out there that people can't see the connection. So - I have communication difficulties. Enough said on that.

I used the word seemingly quite deliberately. It was to imply a falsehood. Something that looks one way on the surface but may not be what it appears. To see that you interpreted that as SEEMS is telling. That small change of the word also changed its meaning. If I had used SEEMS it would have implied some sort of opinion of the man in question personally. This was not intended. This is why I asked at the end of the post what the OP thought of the filmmakers talent. I find it interesting that he did not voice his opinion of it in the original post. I am thinking that he actually found this filmmaker quite talented, therefore adding a possible layer of jealousy to these negative feelings he's experiencing. I could be wrong though - that's why I asked first.

I was simply pointing out that human nature is not always rosy, or pretty or correct. But it is innately human. As is the OP... and a more fully evolved human at that for questioning himself so honestly. It took quite a bit of courage to post this. I admire it.

In closing this rant - I DO NOT think ANYONE deserves death. Anyone. And certainly not a filmmaker for simply doing what he does best or for the possiblity that he may or may not have had an easy time of his career. Everyone is dealt a different hand in life - perhaps he just pulled a royal flush. I do not know anything about this filmmaker or his circumstances in life and it was not my intent to imply that I did. Again - the text you took so much offense to was taken out of the context I intended it in.

Can I have my maturity back now?


Fair enough.

I take your point about the use of the word "seemingly" Re-reading your sentence, I can see it with a different interpretation.

There are some things in what you write that I'm still a little dubious about, but I know I don't always make myself totally clear so I can't complain too loudly. It makes more sense to believe it was just a mis-understanding than to assume you hold the attitudes that I mistook in your post. I re-read your post a few times and while I might prefer it be written differently, I can accept your explanation.

Anyway, I'm glad you could clarify your comments.


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draelynn
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21 Apr 2011, 9:06 pm

It's all good - thanks for the chance to clear it up.



raisedbyignorance
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21 Apr 2011, 11:21 pm

I feel like the only person on here or in the internet world in general who doesn't give two s**t's about the whole mess going on in the Middle East dating back to the Egypt protests earlier this year. I'm just like "huh? What gives?"