Shyness/Introversion vs mild AS-Differences.

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A note a problem in this thread - the title is "Shyness/Introversion vs mild AS-Differences", but all posts (beginning by the OP) only talk about "shyness", ignoring totally the "introversion" part ("shyness" and "introversion" are different things - you can be introvert without being shy; the opposite - shy but not introvert - is more difficult, but I think is also possible).

You can perfectly by AS without being shy or introvert - after all, the classical stereotype of the verbose aspie, who approach people he barely knows to give them a 15 minutes dissertation on his special interest is, in some ways, almost the opposite of shyness.

However, I wonder about the opposite - it is possible to be extremely shy or introvert without appering similar to autism spectrum? Probably not - after all, someone who is extremely introvert probably will have, at least, the impairments in socialization and communication needed for a diagnosis of PDD/NOS.

About the special interests - I have the impression that at least some people define an interest as "stereotyped and restricted" simply by the criteria "interferes with your social life?" (even if the person has many interests and/or if his interests are very broad in nature); if we adopt this criteria, is a relatively easy an introvert person to match the criteria for AS or autism.

Just an FYI

I am not in the very least bit "shy". I also do not have social phobia that I know of.

That said, I am an extreme introvert and live completely alone on 40 acres of land retreating often to the solace of that land.

Here is an interesting dissertation that talks to the same thing as OP.

http://etd.fcla.edu/CF/CFE0003090/Grime ... 005_MA.pdf

Pretty good read if you have the time for it.

I was always called shy and emotionally immatured. I did sometimes get people into trouble but that was because if the teacher at school asked who threw something I would tell without thinking about it. It took me 12 years to realise that people don't like a snitch.

I know I'm definitely not shy. My mom thinks I'm in a shell, but that's far from the truth. Someone could approach me, and I'd be happy to talk at them till they get tired of me. The reality is that I look around at people and can see them as harmless cardboard cutouts. That leads to them seeming just as boring as cardboard, which then means that I don't bother to interact with them. My mind is far more fascinating.

I have difficulty also understanding some of these terms. For instance, is a "verbose aspie" really extraverted? My brother is a very verbose or uninhibited introvert. In fact, he doesn't allow anybody around him to talk when in a social setting but I'm pretty sure he doesn't get much pleasure from socializing except to listen to himself talk? Is an extraverted aspie common?

Personally I'm very receptive to the idea that AS is really a very extreme version of introversion/HSP. In my mind, I find this scheme (despite it's many weaknesses/flaws) useful:

Mild Introversion → Severe Introversion → HSP→ Mild AS →Moderate AS...

I find this scheme useful because HSPs tend to have more sensory issues like most AS. In my mind if environmental/social stuff is too intense, it just becomes "noise"? The link kfisherx provided discusses some these possibilities. The intense world theory of Autism is also very compatible with this scheme, in my opinion:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... -00224.pdf

As is often the case, I found that article comparing Shyness/Social Phobia with AS rather too general for my taste. This happens often: people find a general stereotype about AS, then write articles making sweeping generalizations. Asperger´s is a complex syndrome, and in writing about it in this "big picture" kind of way, I feel it is often misunderstood. What about rigid routines? Stimming? Difficulty in multi-tasking, central coherence, or language? The list could go on. I find it somehow unlikely that hoards of people who are "just shy" are being wrongly diagnosed with AS. And as some people have mentioned, people with AS are not always shy anyway.

I hate the word "shy" although many have used this word to describe me in the past. "Shy" sounds weak and passive and does not even begin to scratch the surface of what I feel inside.

I know you didn't write it, and I wasn't attacking you for it. I was attacking the idiot that write that.

A thing that can distinguish AS from "simple" introversion are the problems in reading non-verbal language and non-literal expressions. An introvert people probably will be problems with their expressive body languange, but there is no reason to have problems with receptive body language

Difference: Mild AS is not required to come with shyness. I have Asperger's, yet I've never been shy.

That's not true at all. People who are shy but do not have autism have many natural born skills that we do not have. They just have fear of using these skills. My niece, who is definitely not autistic, was dreadfully shy when she came to live with us. She did not want to socialize with anyone. Outside of our family, she spoke to no one. Now she is very social and interacts wonderfully with her friends. She is still shy with new people sometimes, but she knows how to interact with people once over her anxiety. The difference? When I am not feeling anxious, I still have no idea how to interact with people!

Exactly. I found that the article based itself on stereotypes of AS rather than how the disorder accurately presents itself. You're going to set such a range of personalities in AS, from the most shy and inhibited, to the most outgoing and social.

I suspect that this theory that some people diagnosed with AS have in reality introversion/shyness could have its roots, not in people really diagnosed with AS, but in the several lists of "famous people who probably had AS" - these lists are full of socially reclusive people (probably because it will be much difficult for an extrovert aspie to be very successful in life).

Btw, an article that was posted in WP some weeks ago:

http://www.socialthinking.com/images/st ... .26.10.pdf

"Shyness" and "introversion" seems more a trait from the mild types, SASC and WISC (and the SASC type is typically Anxious/Avoidant behavior); ESC types (supposedly the typically AS/HFA) does not seem to be particularly "shy".

First let's distinguish between shyness/SAD versus introversion. The comparison that is interesting for me is between introversion and AS not between shyness/SAD and AS. But SAD will be common in both introverts and AS .

I think many introverts also have social difficulties and difficulties multi-tasking, language, etc. but obviously not to the same degree as AS. For example, with respect to social and language difficulties read CHAPTER 5: SOCIAL INTROVERSION, starting on p.56:

"Solitary activities and individual interaction with objects are preferred in both introversion (from Freud, 1918 and Jung, 1923 through to modern conceptualizations as summarized by Laney, 2002) and autism spectrum disorders (DSM-IV-TR; Baron-Cohen et al., 2001). Making new friends is difficult and undesirable (Rufus, 2003; Baron-Cohen et al., 2001). Social awkwardness is another important indicator of social discomfort in autism (Baron-Cohen et al., 2001) and in introversion (Argyle & Lu, 1990 in Hills & Argyle, 2001). Therefore, the phenomena of social ineptitude, the preference for solitary activities and reduced interaction, and the dislike of social situations are common to autism and introversion."

"Introverts “speak slowly” or often have “gaps” in their words. Additionally, their minds may “go blank” when asked to reply. As such, communication is impaired, even as introversion-positive theorists seek to explain these difficulties as endearing “quirks” (Laney, 2002). While introverts have a difficult time with reacting in the moment, communicating one’s thoughts in interaction despite ability to think of the words later, and maintaining proper prosodic flow to speech (Laney, 2002; Helgoe, 2008), autism has long been associated with communicative impairments that include abnormalities in affective content, prosody, and ability to maintain consistent speech."

"Also involved is the introvert’s “courage” and “perspective” to “say unpopular things” (Laney, 2002, pp. 12-13). The tendency to think differently from the group and to be comfortable disturbing the social order may be due to obliviousness of social nuances and mores, a lack of care about them, or an inability to perceive the impropriety upon initiation of the delivery of the information and normal adaptation online"

http://etd.fcla.edu/CF/CFE0003090/Grime ... 005_MA.pdf

I have not read this whole thread yet. I started is sort of backwards. But I found this by piece by accident and this thread reminded me of it. It's about some sort of study on HFA/AS and social anxiety. (I didn't read the actual study)

But note that all these examples have to do with expressive communication, not with receptive communication.